SR 878: Teaching Science: Harmonizing Faith with Facts – David Rives, Part 2 (Homeschooling Every Subject)

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He got where he was by taking the bible at face

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value, by looking at it and saying, I believe

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in the literal, historical, prophetic

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gospel message that is presented in the Bible. And I believe that if

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it says it, it’s going to be true. Hey, everyone,

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this is Yvette Hampton. Welcome back to the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. I

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am back with my guest, David Rives. He is the founder and CEO

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at the Wonders Center and Science Museum in Dixon, Tennessee. It’s

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right outside of Nashville. If you guys haven’t visited yet, go. I haven’t been there

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yet, and I’m excited. Um, we need to take our family there. Um, but again,

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I just. They. You’ve only been open for how long, David? You said eight or

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nine months. About eight or nine months now. We just opened up. Yes. Okay.

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That’s, that’s why I was like, how have we missed it? Because we’ve been to

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Tennessee many, many times, and you said, oh, we’ve only been open eight or nine

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months. Oh, that’s how we missed it. We haven’t been there in the last year,

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so that’s how we’ve missed it. But I’m excited to get to go visit sometime,

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hopefully soon. It’s not that far from us. Anyway, I’m back

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with David and excited to talk more about science with him today. But before

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we do, I want to say thank you again to our sponsor, BJU Press Homeschool.

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If you guys are looking for great curriculum for any subject,

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any age, that is written and taught from a strong

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biblical worldview, check them out at bjupresshomeschool.com. and they will

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help you. If you’re wanting video based lessons or wanting curriculum that

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you’re going to teach yourself at home with your kids, they’ve got something

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for everyone. So check them

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out. Bjupresshomeschool.com. Well, welcome back, David, to the podcast. We

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kind of ended Monday’s episode talking about how to debunk evolution.

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I said I wanted to talk about that today, so I do want to talk

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about how do we debunk evolution? And is science and faith in opposition

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to one another? Like, how do we walk through this with our kids?

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Yeah, the, the most important thing. I speak in

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conferences and conventions and churches all over the

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country, and I almost always get that question to

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which I have to reply. We have to keep cementing ourselves in

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this idea, right? Science doesn’t lie.

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Science, we’re talking about the raw facts. We’re talking

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about data, right? So everybody says, follow the

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science, which is true. We need to follow science,

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because science is going to be 100% consistent with the

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biblical record. Science is going to be 100% consistent with our

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faith. Here’s what we don’t need to do, and everyone needs to know

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this and know how to combat it when they get those types of questions. Just

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follow the science. It tells you that you are nothing more than goo by way

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of the zoo. Right? Right. You say, yes, I want to follow

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the science, and I am following the real scientific

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facts. But here’s what I’m not following. I’m not following

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scientists because scientists

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do lie. Scientists take that

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data, they take those raw facts, and then they say, well, how

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does this fit my agenda? And then they twist it

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and massage it to make it fit their agenda. Yeah, and we’ve got to be

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really careful about this because everybody says evolution is a fact.

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Evolution is science, right? Well, what do you mean by evolution?

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We can’t simply say, oh, well, I don’t agree with that. I’m a Christian. I

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don’t believe in evolution. What do you mean? That’s not the right response.

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What we should be saying is we should be saying, maybe you should

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define evolution for me. Now, at this point,

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here’s how we start debunking some of these myths that are

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being taught. Anytime we flip on the television to a children’s show,

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anytime we pick up, you know,

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kindergarten books, for goodness sake, it’s taught in

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dinosaur cartoons. It’s all over our movies. It’s everywhere

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we look. It’s in every museum.

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They’re going to tell you things and they’re going to tell you that it’s fact.

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Right. But there is a huge difference between what we

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observe and what is being taught as fact.

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All right, so the scientists have taken things and

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twisted them to fit their agenda. I’ll give you an example.

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When they say evolution took place over the last few

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hundred thousand years, 3 million years, which slowly

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turned ape like creatures into you and I, you’re gonna get that a

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lot, right? Sure. Well, then what you say is, how do you

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define evolution? Now, instantly, a skeptic would

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then come back and say, well, what I mean is survival of the

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fittest, of course. To which you say, oh, survival of the

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fittest. You mean the fastest

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impala gets away from the lion? If that’s what you mean by

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evolution, then I suppose I believe in evolution, too.

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Right? Now, all of a sudden you found some common ground to

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which then they will pivot and they’re like, no, no, no. You’re one of those

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christians. Nuh uh. We don’t agree on anything, right. No, really.

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What I meant by evolution was, was mutations.

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Oh, mutations. You mean tiny changes within

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our genetic code that create things like sickle cell anemia,

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that create things like cancers? That. You mean things that are

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harming our genetic code? I believe in those, too. Those are

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observable, repeatable, demonstrable, empirical, real

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science. So if that’s what you mean by evolution, then I guess I’m an

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evolutionist, too. Now, all of a sudden, you found more common ground,

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and the skeptic is saying, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait a second. No, no, no.

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That’s not what I meant. I guess what I really meant is natural

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selection. Oh, natural selection. What you’re trying to

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tell me is that nature has a mind. You’re deifying

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nature, turning nature into a God. Well, you see, I believe there is a

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God, but I don’t believe that God is nature. Right? Oh, well,

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no, what I actually meant was speciation and

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adaptation. Oh, you mean animals can adapt over

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time? In other words, from a eurasian

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wolf species. You could get anything from a

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chihuahua to a great Dane to a cocker spaniel to a german

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shepherd given a few thousand years. Is that what you mean? Well,

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yeah. Well, then I believe in evolution, too, if that’s what you call

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evolution. And finally, it gets down to the one

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thing that is the challenge. That is a faith based belief, and

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that’s the idea that one type of a creature can turn into

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another over millions of years. Life comes from non

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living principles, and then that life changes from amoeba to

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fish to bird to ape to astronaut, and that

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has never been observed. So most of these things called

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evolution have some basis in reality. But the

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one thing that requires this supernatural power to

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create life from non life and then change it from one thing to another

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over millions of years isn’t science. It’s not empirical. It’s not

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observable, it’s not demonstrable. It is not real science. It’s

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a pseudoscience. And it’s time we throw those things out

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of our textbooks and get back to real scientific facts.

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Yeah, absolutely. And this is why we need to be using

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good, strong, biblical worldview curriculum with our kids. There

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are so many homeschool parents who are like, oh, science is science is science.

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I can teach them anything. And so they’ll just grab some science book, you know,

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off the shelf at. At the goodwill, you know, because it was only $2,

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and they have no idea what’s being taught in that book. And so then our

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kids are being led astray, and then they grow into adults who have been led

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astray, and they don’t know the difference between the two. And there is a very,

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very big difference between the two, even though there are

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some similarities between them. But that’s also why we need to

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know and understand the word of God. Right.

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And you talked about that in Monday’s episode. But talk about,

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like, how do we really study the word of

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God in light of science? Because we talked a little bit about how to study

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science in light of the word of God. But reverse that,

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and as we’re reading scripture, how do we study scripture in light

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of science? Yeah. I think the perfect

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example is one that I also gave in my second book,

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21 verses backed by science. And it’s the story of Matthew

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Fontaine Maury. He was known as pathfinder of the

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seas. And his story goes something like this. He was extremely

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ill one day, and he’s lying in bed, doesn’t know

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if he’s gonna live or die. His daughter comes in with a Bible and says,

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I’m just gonna read some scripture to you to see if I can encourage

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you. She turns to psalm eight. What is man, that thou art

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mindful of him, and the son of man, that thou visitest him. For thou hast

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made him a little lower than the angels and has crowned him with glory and

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power. Right. She’s reading through all of this, but again,

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she’s reading through scripture, and she’s talking to her

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father, who believes that scripture is really

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inspired, that if scripture says something, it’s going to be real.

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So she’s reading through this passage. It’s made him a little lower than the angels

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crowned him with glory and honor. Whatsoever passeth through the paths of the

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sea. O lord, our lord, how excellent is thy name in all the

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earth. To which Matthew sat up in bed and he began to repeat to

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himself, he said, paths of the sea. Paths of the

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sea. You see, Matthew was a naval commander. And he said,

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if I ever get out of this bed, if I can ever get well, I’m

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going to. To make it a life’s mission to figure

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out what the Bible means when it says paths of the sea.

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He did get well. He did go out as a naval commander.

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And he did chart the ocean currents, the paths of the sea that

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ships still to this day use around the

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world. And then he became such a famous scientist

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because of that, that there was a monument erected in

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Virginia in his honor that says, to Matthew Fontaine Maury, the

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pathfinder of the seas. The genius who first

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snatched from the oceans and the atmosphere, the secret of their laws.

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But his inspiration was holy writ. In

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other words, he got where he was by taking the

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Bible at face value, by looking at it and saying,

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I believe in the literal,

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historical, prophetic

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gospel message that is presented in the Bible, and I believe that

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if it says it, it’s going to be true. He went out,

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used scientific principles to affirm what

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we already knew. And that is what I would

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encourage every parent, every mother listening, everyone

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who’s listening, your child may be the next Matthew

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Fontaine. Mari. All we need to do is encourage that

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and encourage them to stand strong in the faith and then use

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real scientific principles to explore it. So good. Remember the

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bumper sticker that said, God said it, I believe it. That settles

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it. That just kind of sums up all of that. Right?

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And I have a friend who said, who said, you know what? And that’s a

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great bumper sticker, but. But really, it

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only needs the very first part. God said it. Right. It doesn’t

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matter whether we believe it or not. Right? It’s still true. Okay. And

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that’s the message that we have to get across. Yeah, absolutely. Let’s take

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a break. We’ll be right back.

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We are back with David. I love talking about God’s word

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and science and how it all relates to each

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other. You know, he made science. He made all the things. And so it’s all

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related as we’re looking through scientific findings.

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How does creation reinforce scientific findings? Because

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you are one who goes out and you, like,

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literally, not just figuratively, you literally find

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things to back up scripture, to back up science.

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So talk about that for a minute. Okay, well,

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Yvette, I lead paleo digs,

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paleontology digs in Kansas

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in places like that, where we dig up massive marine

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predator animals, where we dig up, where we dig up

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squids, where we dig up, we find all sorts of

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different types of creatures throughout the fossil record.

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So let me give you a story that happened a few years ago, a true

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story in paleontology that has since

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rocked the paleontological community. And that may be a little bit of a pun,

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because we’re actually looking at rocks. Okay?

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So basically, in about 20 years, 2006

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was the very first publication of this discovery.

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There was a massive T. Rex

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femur bone, a leg bone off of a T. Rex

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massive thing in the field in Montana that was

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discovered by two paleontologists, doctor Mary Schweitzer

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and doctor Jack Horner. Now,

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those two paleontologists said, my goodness, we have to get this T.

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Rex back to the lab and study it. So they

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said, well, let’s start with this massive femur bone. It’s

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so well preserved, let’s go here. So they

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protect it, preserve it. They get the rock removed from around

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it. And they said, we’re going to bring in a helicopter and we will use

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this helicopter to lift out the femur

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bone. But the femur bone is huge.

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So they realize that the helicopter won’t support the payload of

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that large of a bone that has fossilized. It’s basically like a

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giant rock now. Yeah. And they get this bright

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idea. Here’s what we’re gonna do. We’re going to cut the femur in

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half. We’ll cut the leg bone in half, we’ll helicopter one half out, helicopter the

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other half out, glue it back together, and nobody will know the difference.

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Right. It sounded kind of wild, but it

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actually worked. The problem is,

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when they cut that bone in half, they

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discovered soft, stretchy blood vessels

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still inside a T. Rex femur bone, which

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was theoretically supposed to have gone extinct

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66 plus million years

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ago. Wow. And they were blown away. Right. How

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could that be? How could it be? How could it possibly be?

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Since then, over 200 secular

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reports of dinosaur bones with soft material, original

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biomolecules have been discovered. Because before then, everybody was like a

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dinosaur bone. Be very careful. Don’t break it. Be, be gentle.

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Now everybody’s breaking their dinosaur bones open and they’re

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finding more and more of this. Wow. Well, here’s the thing. There are

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only two possibilities. One is

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these bones are not 66 plus million years

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old. They didn’t go extinct in a, in an asteroid

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impact. They must be much younger in order to preserve

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soft, stretchy blood vessels. Our number two,

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somehow we have to figure out a mechanism to

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preserve stretchy, soft blood vessels for

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60 plus million years. Now, of course,

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many of the secular community decided that that was the better of the two

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options. Of course, it must be to

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preserve their mindset. Well,

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truthfully, this is actually confirming the

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creation record that there was a, a catastrophic

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event about 4000, 5000 years ago that

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buried dinosaurs and all other creatures

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around the planet very quickly in tsunami like

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mudflows, with a lot of water over a short period of time,

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preserving them so well that even though the exterior

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of most of these bones have begun to fossilize, when you break them

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open occasionally, we still find original

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biomolecules, osteocytes, proteins, collagen,

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things that absolutely shouldn’t be there from an

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evolutionary perspective, but absolutely should be there

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from a creation perspective. And do you know how rewarding that is when

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we find that. So my colleagues have been finding soft tissue in

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dinosaur bones. I have been digging up so many pieces of

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fossils, including fossils of wood, that will still

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burn today, even though it’s supposed to be 90 million years old.

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We actually have some of that on display in the museum that you can get

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within a few inches of mummified wood

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that is supposed to be 90 million years old, along with all these other creatures.

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But it’s definitely not. It’s vindicating our

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belief system that we’ve held to for so long,

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standing firm on the Bible. But it’s not a faith based belief

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because the evidence is all around us. Right? Right.

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So much evidence. On that note, let me ask you a question,

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because I know that you often, I’m sure, talk to

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scientists who believe on both sides, evolution or

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creation, as you interact with people who believe in

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evolution. Why do you think that is? Why.

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Why do they hold so tight to that belief when there’s so much proof

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of creation? It’s all around them. Why do you

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think, is it that their hearts are just hard towards God and his word?

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Why do you think that they hold so tight to that belief? There’s two reasons,

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Yvette. One is

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the academic system

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is higher indoctrination. It’s not higher education.

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Peer pressure has taken over where

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professors are regurgitating what their professors before them

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said without any thought, without any intellectual

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stimulation of the facts. They are simply repeating what

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they heard. And then they’re training the next generation of young people

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going into college, not just into college, but into a lot of the public schools.

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It starts at an early age, and it is simply indoctrination that

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repeats itself without them actually realizing it.

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That’s number one. But number two is what

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Charles Spurgeon, known as the prince of preachers, hit the nail on

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the head when it comes to this, he said, and he’s living during the same

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time period of Charles Darwin. He’s seeing the very first

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generations of people, of the public that started

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to accept these atheistic views of evolution.

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And he said, you know, these people care not so much

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in, so much for evolution in and of itself, but only so

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far as it may serve their purpose of escaping

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from the thought of God. You see,

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what belief in evolution does is it tells us that we’re nothing more than

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animals, that we’re accidents of the cosmos, that we really have no

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control over our. Of our actions or our feelings,

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because we’re all there is. It’s just chemicals

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happening, and then we live, we die, we’re replaced with another generation

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of animals, hopefully more intellectual

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than we are. And maybe society will improve over time.

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Right? But if we admit that there is a

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creator, then it means that, well, he might have

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things like the golden rule or thou shalt not murder. Right?

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He might have these simple things in place to benefit

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society. And what if I’m Joseph

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Stalin? What if I’m trying to create

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this. This system that promotes atheistic belief

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so that I can murder millions and millions of people? Well,

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it helps my feelings to treat others to believe that I’m an animal

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and everybody else is an animal. And so therefore I get to choose

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who lives and who dies. And ultimately, I know a lot of

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evolutionists aren’t coming at it from that perspective

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consciously, but subconsciously, it helps

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to justify a belief system of

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adulterous, murderous, lying behavior that has

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continued on because we’re just accidents.

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It doesn’t really matter. Yeah. Yep. Then there’s no accountability.

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We have nobody to answer to. We can do whatever we want. So. And it

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makes perfect sense. And that all comes back

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to objective morality versus absolute

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morality. There is such a thing as absolute morality.

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Objective morality leads to Hitler, it leads to Stalin, it leads to

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school shootings, it leads to teen suicide, it

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leads to everything we’re seeing in society leads to abortion. That’s

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exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, such good stuff. All right,

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we’ve got more to talk about, but we are out of time, so we will

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be back tomorrow. David, thank you so much for being with us again today. Tell

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our audience one more time where they can find out more about you and your

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00:22:08,726 –> 00:22:11,382
ministry. DavidRives.com. That’s

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00:22:11,406 –> 00:22:15,126
DavidRives.com. you can sign

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00:22:15,158 –> 00:22:18,918
up for our free emails, our free magazine print magazine delivered

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00:22:18,934 –> 00:22:22,764
to your door every other month. You can follow us on all social

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00:22:22,852 –> 00:22:26,548
media at DavidRives Ministries and then come visit us at the

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00:22:26,564 –> 00:22:29,596
Wonders Center and Science Museum just outside of Nashville.

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Wonderscenter.org. All right, we’ll put those links in the show

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notes. And you know, when you say free, those homeschool moms ears perk up and

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go, what? Something free that I can get for my kids. So

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we’ll put those links in the show notes. Thank you so much for being with

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us today, David. If you guys have anything that we can be praying

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about, let us know. You can always send us an email at

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podcast@schoolhouserocked.com. if you have not left a

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00:22:53,024 –> 00:22:56,384
review for this podcast, would you please take just a minute and leave a review

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00:22:56,432 –> 00:22:59,376
so that other people know why they should listen. Have a great rest of your

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day. Stay tuned to the very end, and we will see you back here tomorrow.

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Bye.