TD 10: Bob Lepine – Gospel-Centered Leadership at Home and In the Church

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Jesus when he said, the greatest commandment is love, Lord your God with all your

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heart, soul, mind and strength. The second is like unto it to love your neighbor

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as yourself. Then he said, everything in the Old Testament can be summed up

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in those two points. All of the Bible is either about how we love God

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or how we love one another. All of the one anothers in scripture

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are to be applied in the marriage relationship. It’s how we love our

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neighbor. And the neighbor is the person nearest you in need. And

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most often the person who is nearest me in need is my wife.

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1% robot but exercising none of my robot

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privilege and broadcasting from the clean corner of

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our studio in northeastern Oklahoma, I’m your host Garritt

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Hampton, and you are listening to the Thinking Dad.

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Well, I’m so glad you’ve joined me today. I have a really great show

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lined up for you. I have Bob Lepine with me today

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and I couldn’t think of a better guest to help us kick off the

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first season of the thinking daddy because he makes it so

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easy. Bob has been on the radio forever.

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He was the longtime co host of Family Life Today. Now

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he’s the host of Mornings on Family Radio, which is heard on over

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70 stations in the United States. He also hosts The

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Bounce podcast for pastors and church planners.

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It’s one I’m a huge fan of and as a model thinking dad,

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he and his wife Marianne have five children and eleven

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grandchildren. Well, I’m excited to get into this conversation,

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but before we get started, I want to tell you about my sponsor today,

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CTCMath. Thinking dads raise

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thinking kids and one of the most important things you can do as a

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father is make sure your kids are getting a great education

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to prepare them for life. So I have an assignment for you.

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Ask your wife how your kids are doing in mathematic. First,

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itll give you a great opportunity to win major husband points

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as you talk about how schools going with the kids. And

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second, if theyre struggling, you can be the hero

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and suggest a fantastic solution. Its the one our

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family uses and loves. CTCMath. Check them

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out ctcmath.com. Tell them thank you

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for supporting the Thinking Dad podcast. Well, I

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mentioned Bob is a pro and makes things really easy.

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And when I had invited Bob to be on the podcast I had a few

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ideas about where our conversation would go. But I left my request

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pretty open ended and Bob came back with this

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loving your wife is the best thing you can do for your children.

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And I thought, man, that just perfectly sums up the thinking

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dad podcast. I cannot wait to dive into this

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topic. Bob, for those of my listeners who don’t really

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know you, could you take a minute and introduce yourself and your family to

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them? Yeah, I’m happy to do that, Garritt. Great to be with you again and

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looking forward to this time together. So, I grew up in

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St. Louis, in suburban St. Louis, went to the University of Tulsa,

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which is where I met my wife, Mary Ann. We got married in

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1979. My original career

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plan was to go to law school, and I took a

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summer job between undergraduate and graduate school at a radio

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station. And they offered me a raise halfway through the summer. And I was

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having fun, and I didn’t want to start hitting the books again. So I said,

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well, I’ll ride this and see how long it goes. And if it doesn’t work

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out, I’ll go to law school then that’s still my plan.

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So, so far, it’s worked out okay. Good to

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have. I worked in local radio, both in news talk

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radio and then in christian radio in Tulsa

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and Phoenix, Sacramento, San Antonio, Texas. And

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then 1992, came to Little Rock to help start a program

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called Family Life Today with Dennis Rainey was on that for

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28 years. In addition

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to that, we helped plant a church here in Little Rock, where I

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serve as the primary teaching pastor, the lead pastor for the church,

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that’s Redeemer Community Church. And I

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work together with my friends at Truth for Life, Alistair

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Begg, opening and closing his program. I serve

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with a ministry called Revive our Hearts, Nancy Demoss

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Wolgamuth’s ministry, and have been working with

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Nancy for 20 plus years now in

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that area. And then I’m also a board member for a

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church planting ministry called the Great Commission Collective,

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where we’re seeking to plant churches across the US and around the world,

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I. People ask me, what’s your hobby? I say, I’m going to need

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some time to figure that out because I stay busy, but I love

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the opportunities God has given me. Yeah. This

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isn’t a part of my questions for the interview. I want to take a quick

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left turn. Okay. You just listed a bunch of things, and before we started

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recording, we were talking about kind of how you stay busy all the time.

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Um, what would your advice be to mention who want to live

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lives of purpose and serve the Lord through their

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vocation? I think the first thing you have to

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do is pull back and say, okay, what are the talents,

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gifts, abilities, and interests that God

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has given me? Because I think when we look at how

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Ephesians 210 we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for

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good works, which he prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. So

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we look around and go, well, who did he make me to be? What desires

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did he put in my heart? What gifts did he give me? And then how

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can I leverage that gifting for maximum kingdom

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impact? And that’s the thing I’m always asking myself,

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is what I’m doing today. Do I believe that this is the thing I

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can be doing that will bring maximum kingdom impact? That

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doesn’t mean I do everything. It just means within my gifting and my interests.

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So when I was at family life, and I was there, like I said,

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for almost three decades, and early on, people would come

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and they would say, how long do you think you’ll stay here at family life?

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Like, are you here for a couple years or what’s going on? And I said,

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the only way I know how to answer that is I’m going to be here

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as long as I think this is the place where I can

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utilize my gifts for kingdom impact in the best

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way. If something came along and I looked at that and

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said, I think I could leverage myself and get greater impact for the

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kingdom doing that, then as a stewardship issue, I’d have to do

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that. I’m talking in a ministry context, and I

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know probably most of the guys who are listening to us are guys who are

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in a working environment. I just want to say, in whatever working

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environment, secular working environment you’re in, you’re still about

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a kingdom assignment, then that’s to providing for

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your family, that is providing for the common good in the culture. You’re

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doing things that are benefiting the culture. You’re having

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opportunities for interaction with believers and non believers. So you have

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that opportunity as well. I think a guy can have

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maximum kingdom impact as a physician or as a

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shipping clerk or whatever job God’s given him. You

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can utilize that for the kingdom. But that is what needs to

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be kind of front and center, is what I’m doing something where I can

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have kingdom impact, or how can I have kingdom impact? How can I do

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my work heartily as unto the lord that glorifies him? How can I have

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an influence? Be salt and light on my coworkers even. And I know

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it’s a long answer, you asked one question, but I love it. Kind of hit

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a vein here. Even there are guys I

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know who are gifted at making a lot of money,

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and I would say, great, use that gift, make

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a lot of money, and then figure out how to utilize that gift for kingdom

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impact. So it’s not just for selfish gain. It’s how can I take

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this gift God’s given me? I have a friend of mine who’s in Colorado

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and he was one of the early employees at

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Blockbuster. Now, for your younger listeners, Blockbuster is an old

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store that used to sell things called videotapes.

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He was early on there, made a ton of money in the

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blockbuster arena, and came to a point in life where he

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said, okay, I’m set, my family’s set.

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And he just put aside what they were going to need to live off of.

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And then he took everything else and said, how can I invest this for the

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kingdom? And he didn’t just give it away. He

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invested in other businesses because he’s good at this. That would

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make more money. But all of the money he was making from those

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businesses, he was looking at, how can I expand the kingdom

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through this work? Because he’d already set aside what he

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needed to live on. He said he had more excitement

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getting up and going to work to make money for the kingdom than he ever

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had getting up and going to work at Blockbuster to make money for his

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family. So I say all of that to say the guiding

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principle for how you think about this as a man

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is who did God make me to be? That’s step

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one. My interests, desires and gifts. How do I leverage those

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for the kingdom and how do I maximize the

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impact for the kingdom in doing that and keep pressing in that

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direction? Yeah, amen. I want to narrow in

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on something. You say maximum kingdom impact. How do we

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define that as men? I know Jesus talks about

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loving the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and

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loving your neighbor as yourself. How do you think the

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Bible sums up maximum kingdom impact?

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Well, of course, those are the great guiding

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principles of life. When I think about kingdom impact, I’m thinking about

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the commission that Jesus gave to all of us in Matthew 28.

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He said, okay, go and make disciples of all

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nations, teaching them everything that I’ve taught you, baptizing

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them. So it is how can we evangelize and

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disciple in the context that we’re in? When I talk about

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maximum kingdom impact, it’s people coming into the kingdom. It’s

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people growing, mature in kingdom work, and it’s seeing the

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borders of the kingdom expanding so that more and more people are hearing the

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gospel, responding to the gospel, believing the gospel,

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living lives in obedience to the gospel, and that

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the kingdom is advancing through the work that we’re doing. That’s

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the bellwether I’m looking for. Yeah. Amen. One of

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the most important books I ever read in my christian walk. Second

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to the Bible, I’d say, is a book called Cat and Dog

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Theology by Bob Sjogren and Gerald Robinson.

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And I’m going to sum it up, and I’ll give you the big spoiler alert.

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The ultimate thing that we are here for is God’s

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glory. And the way we do that on earth is by

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following Jesus command and living out the great commission

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and expanding the kingdom, just like you’re talking about.

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And, you know, my life has been spent,

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my adult life has been spent in two realms. I worked in the

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professional world for a long time and through that did some

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kingdom work, was involved in ministries at church and church

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planning, and even did some christian ministry type

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work. And then the latter part of my career has been in

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ministry. And the funny thing is, my day

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to day life hasn’t changed that much. And my goal hasn’t

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changed that much. So as men, I think it’s important that we hear what

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Bob’s saying and really focus on what has God made me to

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do, and how can I be using my time now to bring him glory and

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to expand the kingdom? And let me just say to that theres a young man

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in our church who just was named the manager at the Rock and roll

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sushi. I dont know if you have rock and roll sushi where you live or

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if our listeners do, but its a sushi restaurant. And hes the

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manager. And when he got the job, we sat down and I said,

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managing a restaurant, thats a pretty consuming job. I know what thats like.

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And its also a big revolving door for a lot of employees

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and a lot of people who are in the food service industry. There’s a lot

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of drug use. There’s a lot of promiscuous sex going on. I mean, it’s just

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one of those industries. So we talked about this is the

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environment God’s put you in, kind of like he put Daniel in the King’s court

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in Babylon. You have an opportunity here to show

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people what a good manager looks like, somebody who cares about his

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staff, who runs the business with excellence, who works hard, all of these

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things. And to be in that regard, a testimony

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for Christ. And you, you’re going to have to fire some

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people. You’re going to have to work with people who are

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experiencing challenges in real life. Anyway, he’s come

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back to me and said, there are so many great ministry

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opportunities as the manager of a restaurant with the staff, which he looks

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at as kind of a group. Now, he’s not evangelizing them and

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having Bible studies with them, but he’s living it out and he’s giving

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them godly wisdom, and they know where he stands. And he’s had some of

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them after hours approach him about spiritual matters.

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So it’s, it’s really wherever God plants you, there are ministry

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opportunities if you care about people and if you want to see God glorified. So

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it’s exactly what you talked about here. And I think all of us as

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men need to say, this is where I’m planted. How can I bring glory to

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God in this situation? How can I show people that God loves him?

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I love them and serve them well. That’s the bottom line.

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Amen. Well, let’s talk about the sphere above that

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one, above our workplace before we’re there. We

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are, first of all, the heads of our family. And

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the subject you mentioned for this podcast just bowled me

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over. Loving your wife is the best thing you can do for your children,

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and that encompasses that full sphere.

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Talk about what that looks like practically. Well, let me just

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start by saying there’s an author friend of mine, some of our

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listeners may know the name Josh McDowell. He’s written a lot of books and has

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spoken a lot, and he’s in his eighties today. But in an interview

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with him many years ago, he made the statement, I’ve

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never forgotten it. He did this for shock value. But he said, I tell

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everybody I know that my ministry is the most important thing in my

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life. It’s more important than my wife, my family. My ministry

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is the most important thing in my life, my life. And we’re all going, wait,

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Josh, that’s not right. You’re getting it wrong. And then he paused and he said,

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and my number one ministry is to my wife, my

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number one ministry beyond that is to my kids. And then

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ministry outside of the home flows out of that. But

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I think he made a great point by saying all of life is a ministry,

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and we shouldn’t segment and say ministries over here and families over

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there. So, yes, we have to start with, I think, a premise

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that says, I have been put by God here to have a

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ministry. Ministry. That word means to serve. So

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it’s to be a servant for the kingdom in

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my home, in my marriage, in my family. And we start there

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and everything else flows out of there. You’re not going to be any

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good to folks at work unless your marriage and your family

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are in good shape. I mean, it’s going to be a

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liability. Make this the priority it needs to

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be, and God will be glorified.

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Life will go a whole lot better for you. And then I would also

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say, and you have to pull back and go, God made you a man.

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Men are different than women, not just biologically different than

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women. We have a number of differences. We won’t

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go through all of those. But God has also given us different assignments as men.

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And there’s a pastor here locally in Little Rock, a man

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named Robert Lewis, who has written on this subject of manhood and

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spoken on it many times. And Robert summed up

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manhood with four characteristics. He said, a godly

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man, first of all, rejects passivity.

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And I can spend a lot of time on this because when we think about

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our assignment as husbands and then as dads,

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step number one is to reject passivity. I think the default setting for

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all of us since the fall, since before the

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fall is passivity. Some guys would say,

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no, I’m not passive. And I would say, okay, you may be hyper aggressive,

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because I’ve met guys like that, but I think the average guy,

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if he’s just gonna. If somebody else will do it, sure,

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I’ll just sit down on the sofa with ESPN and watch whatever.

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And so we have to step out of passivity,

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out of the. I’ll let somebody else do it, and we have to do the

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next thing, which is take responsibility. So we reject

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passivity and we assume responsibility. We say, God has put me in

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a position of responsibility, which, by the way, guys

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will often talk about authority. And I will say, let’s talk about

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responsibility because your authority is derived from your sense of

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responsibility. So it’s not about you being in charge as much

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as it’s about you being the buck stopping with you. You’re

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responsible. You will answer to God for what goes on in your

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marriage and your family. So you have a responsibility to

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handle these things well. Reject passivity, accept

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responsibility, lead courageously.

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So you step out and you say, here’s where we need to go. And sometimes

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you’re not sure. I will sometimes say to my wife, I think this is what

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we need to do. And she has very wisely, on more than one occasion said,

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have you prayed about that? And I will say, okay, let

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me get back to you on that and take time, pray

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so that it’s not just, here’s where I want to go, or here’s where I

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think we should go, but here’s where I think God’s leading us to go, lead

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courageously. And then the last thing Robert puts in his definition

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here is to expect the greater

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reward. So rather than thinking, if I do this, I’m going to get the

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payoff, expect that if you do this, there is a greater reward

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ahead for you no matter what happens in this situation.

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And I would just add one thing to Robert’s definition I would put into

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that. Reject passivity, lead courageously.

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What I miss, reject passivity, assume responsibility, lead

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courageously. Love sacrificially. I

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think that’s got to be in there as well. And then expect the greater reward

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when we understand that’s who we are to be as men.

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Now in our marriage relationship, what does it look like

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to reject passivity, to take

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responsibility, to love and lead well, and

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to leave it all in the Lord’s hands and say, lord,

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I’m going to do this expecting your reward whether I get anything

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in this life or not. Wow. And what an unfortunate

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time we live in when the passivity is

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almost held up as a virtue. Like, the least I can do,

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the better. If I can sit around and watch tv at night or

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play my video games and have a weekend of golf, like I’ve made

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it. In fact, our. Our society strives towards

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retirement. Right. The ultimate in passive

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activities. So I think it’s really telling that his

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first fundamental element of biblical

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manhood, I guess, would be to reject passivity. Yeah. And, Garritt,

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I think it’s. I mean, I need downtime. I need time to

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relax, to kick back and do whatever it is that’s rejuvenating or

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refreshing for my soul. So I’m not saying we’ve got to be on

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24/7 we can’t relax or get any time for ourselves,

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but that can’t be the controlling

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motivation of our lives. That has to be the

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recharging. I took a sabbatical this past year,

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first time in many years. Marianne and I took eight weeks.

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I was away from the church. We drove from Little Rock

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to the Pacific Ocean in California. We drove back through national

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parks in the north. Yellowstone and all of those at Mount

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Rushmore came back. And then we did a loop to the east and went to

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Brooklyn. We went to Coney island. So I touched the Atlantic in

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the Pacific, 10,000 miles on the car. That was refreshing and

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rejuvenating, and we had great time together and got to see a lot.

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But I knew I was doing that so that the battery could be refreshed

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and recharged, so that when I came home, I

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could start rolling up my sleeves and getting back in the

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game, which I think is the plan that we need to be? That

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needs to be what we’re living for. The Bible says in Ephesians

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chapter four that we’re to redeem the time. The

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days are evil, so we need to look at where we are and go, we’ve

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got an urgent situation. If we knew we were in a war zone, which we

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are, because we live in the middle of a spiritual battle, we would not say,

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well, let’s take a few days off while the battle is going on. We would

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say, no, we’ve got to stay here and fight. And I think

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that’s a part of what we need to be thinking about as men. We’re called

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to spiritual battle. Let’s step up and take responsibility for

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that. Yeah. Amen. One of the things that I see in

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God’s word that I count as a real grace to the Lord,

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is that he establishes a biblical model

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of work and rest in the Bible. And it’s not just that

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model. In Genesis, six days you shall labor, and on the 7th you shall

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restore. Which he modeled for us. Right, right. But for the

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Israelites, he also established a calendar that included

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festivals and seasons and jubilees.

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And, you know, it is good to understand that God

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knows our nature partially because we’re created in

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his image. He knows us because we reflect some of his

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nature. And he loved us enough to establish

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a schedule that was appropriate and healthy and would work

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for us. But at the same time, I think theres, for some men,

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theres a tendency to tend toward leisure

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and to break that schedule. And then for some other men, theres a tendency

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towards workaholism and to ignore

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the Sabbath and ignore the festivals and ignore the

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seasons. So thats, you know, its one of those things that as

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men, we really have to balance, and our source has to

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be God’s word. So moving from there, I want to

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ask you, what’s the biblical framework or the biblical source for

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understanding our roles in marriage? Well, I

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think the Bible speaks. I’m going to go big picture.

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First, you mentioned the great commandments. Love the Lord your God with all your

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heart, soul, mind and strength. The second commandment, love your neighbor as

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yourself. As soon as Jesus says that in the Bible, they say, well,

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now wait, who’s my neighbor? And we get the parable of the good

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Samaritan. And I think the point of that parable is your neighbor is

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the person who is near you in need. So

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whoever is near you in need, that’s your neighbor. And

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Jesus when he said, the greatest commandment is love, Lord, your God with all your

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heart, soul, mind and strength. The second is like unto it to love your neighbor

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as yourself. Then he said, everything in the Old Testament can be summed up

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in those two points. Everything in the Old Testament is either about how we love

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God or how we love our neighbor. Now, it took me a long time to

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recognize. I used to think that in the Bible, there were a handful of passages

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that addressed marriage. Ephesians five one, Peter

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three, Genesis two, song of Solomon. Has a

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little marriage stuff in it, right? So I could take you to some of

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these marriage ideas. But then one day I realized

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all of the Bible is either about how we love God or how we love

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one another. All of the one anothers in scripture

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are to be applied in the marriage relationship. I used to read passages that

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would say, encourage one another, and I would think, well, I need to encourage

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people at church. And then dawned on me, well, I need to encourage my

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wife or bear one anothers burdens, or

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exhort one another or greet one another with a holy kiss. Theyre all these one

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anothers. I used to think, well, this is how we should get along with people

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at church. But the Bible is saying

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it’s how we love our neighbor. And the neighbor is the person nearest

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you in need. And most often, the person who is nearest me in

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need is my wife. So my number one,

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carrying out of God’s design for me to love my neighbor as

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myself is for me to help

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my neighbor in need however I can. And

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to, I would say this is where we also need to, as men, be thinking

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about what is the strategic purpose of. For

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our marriage and our family, and if we’re.

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Marianne and I have kind of adopted the language that if I’m

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the CEO of the family enterprise, the chief executive

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officer, and she’s the COO, the chief operating officer,

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and we get together all the time and think about, okay, how’s the family enterprise

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doing? And she’s doing more of the executional stuff while I’m

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doing more of the vision and strategy and long term thinking

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and planning kind of stuff. But I can’t operate in a vacuum

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away from her. I need her input as the operation

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officer. She needs my input in terms of where I think

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the Lord’s taking us in all of this, and together we function

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as a family. Now, I want husbands to recognize

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that there is great interaction in that kind of a

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model. We depend on one another, but there’s also a

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hierarchy in that kind of a model. The COO reports

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to the CEO. In a corporation, there’s somebody

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who’s at the top. Now, if all the CEO is doing is saying, I want

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it done my way, and this is my vision, and the COO saying, that’s not

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going to work. And I think this is a terrible idea. I don’t care. Nobody

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wants to work with that guy or for that guy. He’s going to run things

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off the road. But when you’ve got a business where the

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CEO and the cooze are in lockstep, they’re on

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the same page. If they disagree, they’re getting behind the curtain and they’re saying, what

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about this? And they’re challenging one another. Ultimately, the COO

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says, okay, you’re in the position of CEO.

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I’ll follow you. You’ve heard my input. You know what? I think

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I’ll follow. So that’s the role of a wife saying,

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I’m ready to follow what you’re saying. You’ve heard my input. You

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know what? I think I’m going to trust that this is the right thing

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for us to do. And I think keeping that

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structure in mind, you work side by side with your wife in

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the marriage and in the family and in running the household. But ultimately, when

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the buck stops, it stops with you. Let me just point out here

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in the garden. So the serpent comes to

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eve. She’s tempted. She eats. She hands the apple to

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the man who was with her.

439
00:26:51,890 –> 00:26:55,706
He was with her. Not saying anything, not going, sweetheart. No, no, don’t

440
00:26:55,738 –> 00:26:58,874
talk to the snake. He was being passive. Right?

441
00:26:59,042 –> 00:27:01,790
And. And then God comes

442
00:27:02,610 –> 00:27:06,386
for an inspection the next day, and who does he come and look

443
00:27:06,418 –> 00:27:10,066
up? Adam, where are you? Adam? Right. What

444
00:27:10,098 –> 00:27:13,930
happened here? God is holding Adam accountable for everything

445
00:27:13,970 –> 00:27:17,502
that just happened over in the garden. Even though it was Eve who was

446
00:27:17,526 –> 00:27:21,010
tempted and ate the forbidden fruit. God says,

447
00:27:21,430 –> 00:27:25,222
you’re accountable for this. And I think as men, we have to recognize in

448
00:27:25,246 –> 00:27:28,950
our marriages, God’s going to have a greater weight of accountability for

449
00:27:28,990 –> 00:27:32,662
us in terms of how we operate and how we function, how we love our

450
00:27:32,686 –> 00:27:36,382
wives well, how we lead our families well, we bear a

451
00:27:36,406 –> 00:27:40,130
greater weight before the Lord on that than our wives will bear. And

452
00:27:40,430 –> 00:27:43,870
we need to be sobered by that and be good stewards of that.

453
00:27:44,030 –> 00:27:47,702
Wow. So you just stepped into maybe the most

454
00:27:47,766 –> 00:27:51,566
controversial area that’s ever discussed in the church, which is

455
00:27:51,598 –> 00:27:55,270
the family order and authority. And I want to talk a whole

456
00:27:55,310 –> 00:27:58,798
lot more about this, but we should take a real quick break first,

457
00:27:58,934 –> 00:28:02,550
man, I want to ask a favor of you. As you know, the Thinking dad

458
00:28:02,590 –> 00:28:06,158
podcast is brand new and we really want to reach

459
00:28:06,294 –> 00:28:10,058
millions of men with this message of encouragement. So I

460
00:28:10,074 –> 00:28:13,722
want to ask you to take a minute to share this show. If youre watching

461
00:28:13,746 –> 00:28:17,146
the video on YouTube or another video platform, make sure youre

462
00:28:17,178 –> 00:28:21,002
subscribed to our channel. Go ahead and hit the like button and

463
00:28:21,026 –> 00:28:24,546
then leave a comment that really does help with the algorithms. If youre

464
00:28:24,578 –> 00:28:28,306
listening on a podcast app, take a minute to go in and rate and

465
00:28:28,338 –> 00:28:31,802
review the show. It helps others to know why. This shows an

466
00:28:31,826 –> 00:28:35,256
encouragement to you, and it really does help to get the word out.

467
00:28:35,418 –> 00:28:38,012
Also, men, take a minute. Go to

468
00:28:38,036 –> 00:28:41,452
ctcmath.com and just say thank you for supporting this

469
00:28:41,476 –> 00:28:45,124
show. They’re such a blessing. They’ve been with Schoolhouse

470
00:28:45,172 –> 00:28:48,812
Rocked Podcast for about five years now. They’ve really been a

471
00:28:48,836 –> 00:28:52,540
blessing to us and they just believe in this mission. So they were game

472
00:28:52,580 –> 00:28:55,916
to come along with us for the first season and support us in a big

473
00:28:55,948 –> 00:28:59,668
way. If you are blessed by this show, it’s partially

474
00:28:59,724 –> 00:29:02,902
because of them. I want you to take a minute and say thank you to

475
00:29:02,926 –> 00:29:06,606
them. It really does help out. Okay, we are back with Bob

476
00:29:06,638 –> 00:29:10,270
Lepine. And before the break, Bob dove

477
00:29:10,310 –> 00:29:13,718
into some deep waters where he was talking about authority.

478
00:29:13,894 –> 00:29:17,566
And I’d love to ask Bob where we get

479
00:29:17,598 –> 00:29:20,170
our biblical foundation for that model.

480
00:29:21,350 –> 00:29:25,010
And why do you think it is such a stumbling block in the church?

481
00:29:25,910 –> 00:29:29,646
Well, I think in terms of marriage, we get that

482
00:29:29,678 –> 00:29:33,350
model from Ephesians chapter five where authority and submission are

483
00:29:33,430 –> 00:29:36,910
mentioned specifically. Husbands, love your wives, wives,

484
00:29:37,030 –> 00:29:40,766
submit to your husbands. First Corinthians eleven three is where

485
00:29:40,798 –> 00:29:43,690
it talks about the man is the head of the wife,

486
00:29:44,350 –> 00:29:47,158
Christ is the head of the church. God is the head of Christ. So

487
00:29:47,214 –> 00:29:50,582
hierarchy is a part of divine order. God

488
00:29:50,646 –> 00:29:54,022
creates hierarchy. Now, we need to be careful in recognizing

489
00:29:54,166 –> 00:29:57,860
that position or hierarchy does not mean greater

490
00:29:57,900 –> 00:30:01,484
worth, value, or dignity. So men and women have equal value,

491
00:30:01,572 –> 00:30:05,340
worth, and dignity. We are both equally created by

492
00:30:05,380 –> 00:30:09,140
God, image bearers of God. We are accepted

493
00:30:09,180 –> 00:30:12,340
in the beloved with equal value, worth, and dignity.

494
00:30:12,420 –> 00:30:16,196
But there are two areas that I

495
00:30:16,228 –> 00:30:20,052
read in scripture, in the church and in the home, where God has

496
00:30:20,116 –> 00:30:23,880
a specific assignment for men and a specific assignment for women,

497
00:30:24,190 –> 00:30:27,870
and where there are some things that God says, I want men to do

498
00:30:27,910 –> 00:30:31,382
this. So I want men to be the CEO’s of their home and in the

499
00:30:31,406 –> 00:30:35,246
church, I want the men to be the leaders, the elders,

500
00:30:35,278 –> 00:30:38,806
the pastor, teachers in the church.

501
00:30:38,958 –> 00:30:42,742
And women have a subordinate role

502
00:30:42,806 –> 00:30:45,890
that does not take away from their value, worth, or dignity.

503
00:30:46,310 –> 00:30:50,014
But because there has to be a hierarchy, this is what God

504
00:30:50,062 –> 00:30:52,966
has set up, a lot of people today look around and go, well, it should

505
00:30:52,998 –> 00:30:56,766
be according to gifting. So the more gifted person should be the one who

506
00:30:56,798 –> 00:31:00,542
takes that role. And I would say if I was in charge, that would

507
00:31:00,566 –> 00:31:04,246
make sense to me too, but I’m not in charge. So

508
00:31:04,278 –> 00:31:08,010
God has said my design is that this would be

509
00:31:08,310 –> 00:31:11,862
based on gender differentiation and people will

510
00:31:11,886 –> 00:31:15,694
chafe against that. I know women who feel oppressed by that

511
00:31:15,742 –> 00:31:19,374
or feel that there’s a lack of value or worth their dignity

512
00:31:19,462 –> 00:31:23,134
or that somehow this can’t be right. I remember talking to a guy one time

513
00:31:23,182 –> 00:31:26,768
who said, I just can’t believe that, that God would not

514
00:31:26,904 –> 00:31:30,712
allow a woman to be the lead pastor in a church. And I

515
00:31:30,736 –> 00:31:34,056
said, okay, so is that because God’s

516
00:31:34,088 –> 00:31:37,648
values don’t match your values and you think he needs to

517
00:31:37,704 –> 00:31:41,300
adjust himself or you can’t believe it because

518
00:31:41,760 –> 00:31:45,020
you don’t think it’s what the Bible teaches? It’s one thing.

519
00:31:46,440 –> 00:31:49,064
I’m gonna go off on a little bunny trail. You okay with me running this?

520
00:31:49,112 –> 00:31:52,762
Oh yeah, let’s do it. Okay. There’s something that’s

521
00:31:52,786 –> 00:31:55,830
called the wesleyan quadrilateral.

522
00:31:56,850 –> 00:31:59,874
John Wesley was a famous circuit writing

523
00:31:59,922 –> 00:32:03,562
preacher. Methodism has kind of come out

524
00:32:03,586 –> 00:32:06,790
of the wesleyan tradition, but

525
00:32:07,970 –> 00:32:11,786
biographers of Wesley have said Wesley used to look and say, how do we

526
00:32:11,818 –> 00:32:15,578
know what’s real and right and true? And he said there are four

527
00:32:15,634 –> 00:32:19,122
ways that we contest what is real and right and true. What does the Bible

528
00:32:19,186 –> 00:32:22,626
say? What does church history and

529
00:32:22,658 –> 00:32:25,910
tradition tell us? What does our own experience

530
00:32:26,970 –> 00:32:30,190
or wisdom tell us? And then

531
00:32:32,090 –> 00:32:35,898
what do our emotions tell us about this? And he

532
00:32:35,914 –> 00:32:38,914
would say we’d put all of that in a pot and we would come to

533
00:32:39,042 –> 00:32:42,816
an understanding of truth. I would say

534
00:32:42,978 –> 00:32:46,756
that if that was actually Wesleys way of thinking, which

535
00:32:46,788 –> 00:32:50,420
im not sure it was, I would say rather than thinking that these are all

536
00:32:50,460 –> 00:32:53,520
ingredients that go into your wisdom stew.

537
00:32:54,100 –> 00:32:57,628
These are actually bricks that you build on. And you start with a

538
00:32:57,644 –> 00:33:01,332
foundation of gods word. And then the history and

539
00:33:01,356 –> 00:33:05,172
experience of the church is the second layer of that foundation. Your

540
00:33:05,196 –> 00:33:08,972
own experience and your own wisdom come on top of that and then your emotions

541
00:33:09,036 –> 00:33:11,764
come on top of that and they’re all

542
00:33:11,852 –> 00:33:15,200
considered. But when they conflict with one another,

543
00:33:15,540 –> 00:33:18,772
you go with what the Bible says and you say, well I’m not clear on

544
00:33:18,796 –> 00:33:21,300
what the Bible says. Then you say, well, what has the church understood the Bible

545
00:33:21,340 –> 00:33:24,760
to say throughout the history of mankind

546
00:33:25,420 –> 00:33:29,252
and what we have in our culture today is that’s been inverted and people

547
00:33:29,316 –> 00:33:32,820
are saying here’s how I determine what’s true, what

548
00:33:32,860 –> 00:33:36,532
feels true to me, what does my own experience tell me is true, what does

549
00:33:36,556 –> 00:33:40,360
my own wisdom tell me is true, then I’ll go to the Bible and church

550
00:33:40,400 –> 00:33:44,152
history. And if those two are in conflict, I’m going to either find a

551
00:33:44,176 –> 00:33:47,728
way to reinterpret the Bible or just toss it aside completely.

552
00:33:47,864 –> 00:33:51,616
Because ultimate authority for me is my emotions, my experiences,

553
00:33:51,648 –> 00:33:55,416
and my own wisdom right now bringing that into the conversation we’re

554
00:33:55,448 –> 00:33:59,288
having here about church hierarchy or about hierarchy in

555
00:33:59,304 –> 00:34:02,896
the home, a lot of the chafing that

556
00:34:02,928 –> 00:34:06,362
comes is because people say my wisdom,

557
00:34:06,506 –> 00:34:10,350
my emotions, my preferences are more authoritative

558
00:34:10,890 –> 00:34:14,058
than God’s word and the history of the church. And I think that’s where we

559
00:34:14,074 –> 00:34:17,514
have to pull back and go, that’s not how God wants us to be thinking

560
00:34:17,562 –> 00:34:20,938
about things. We defer to his word, and we bring our

561
00:34:21,074 –> 00:34:24,786
experience and emotions in line with what his word teaches, not

562
00:34:24,818 –> 00:34:28,626
the other way around. So when it comes to God saying, it is

563
00:34:28,658 –> 00:34:32,418
by his design that men should be the leaders in the spiritual, leaders in the

564
00:34:32,434 –> 00:34:35,646
home and in the church. And we say, well, I don’t think that’s fair or

565
00:34:35,678 –> 00:34:39,374
right we have to say, but if that’s what the word of God says, then

566
00:34:39,422 –> 00:34:42,558
we need to adjust our thinking, not adjust the word of God.

567
00:34:42,694 –> 00:34:45,890
And as I’ve studied scripture over the years,

568
00:34:46,190 –> 00:34:49,718
trying to find ways to get around some of these passages,

569
00:34:49,854 –> 00:34:53,326
I can’t find them. And so I have to go. Lord, I’m going to

570
00:34:53,398 –> 00:34:57,130
defer to your wisdom. You know what’s best.

571
00:34:57,550 –> 00:35:01,182
Even if something doesn’t seem real or right to me, I’m going to come under

572
00:35:01,366 –> 00:35:04,814
your authority and believe what you say is true. Amen.

573
00:35:04,982 –> 00:35:08,686
Uh, I’m going to take a left turn as well. Okay. Because

574
00:35:08,838 –> 00:35:12,486
you mentioned submitting all these things to God’s authority. One, one of the

575
00:35:12,518 –> 00:35:16,158
beautiful things I see about God’s character, he

576
00:35:16,174 –> 00:35:19,774
tells us in one corinthians 14 that God is a God of order, not

577
00:35:19,822 –> 00:35:23,582
chaos. Right, right. And even more than that, if you

578
00:35:23,606 –> 00:35:27,280
look at the description of Jesus in John, Jesus

579
00:35:27,320 –> 00:35:30,860
is called the Logos. Right? That is the

580
00:35:31,200 –> 00:35:35,008
characterization of order. It is the logic, it

581
00:35:35,024 –> 00:35:38,792
is the universal order, and all things are held together in him

582
00:35:38,896 –> 00:35:42,056
and through his word. God is a God of order. And he

583
00:35:42,088 –> 00:35:45,896
establishes these guidelines for us in his word, that if we

584
00:35:45,928 –> 00:35:49,376
follow them, we are blessed and we do

585
00:35:49,408 –> 00:35:53,050
well, theyre there does need to be

586
00:35:53,090 –> 00:35:56,642
some grace in the body for disagreement, even when

587
00:35:56,666 –> 00:36:00,110
it’s big, big issues. And I’ll tell you

588
00:36:00,810 –> 00:36:04,362
a little later in the conversation, I’m going to talk about the state of the

589
00:36:04,386 –> 00:36:07,866
church with you, because this is something fascinating to me and it’s something

590
00:36:07,938 –> 00:36:11,418
very personal to me, and it’s an area where I admit I

591
00:36:11,474 –> 00:36:14,830
struggle in that I’m very, very black and white.

592
00:36:15,330 –> 00:36:19,002
And so I see a lot of compromise in the

593
00:36:19,026 –> 00:36:22,764
church, and I go, well, I can have no business with that.

594
00:36:22,892 –> 00:36:26,532
And I. My tendency is just to walk away completely.

595
00:36:26,716 –> 00:36:30,412
And I think the area where my heart began to change in

596
00:36:30,436 –> 00:36:34,004
this was through Covid. The church

597
00:36:34,092 –> 00:36:37,160
compromised in a lot of really important ways.

598
00:36:37,460 –> 00:36:41,164
And my first instinct was just to write off every

599
00:36:41,212 –> 00:36:44,508
pastor that shut his doors, every pastor that

600
00:36:44,604 –> 00:36:47,946
required masks, every pastor that didn’t do it my

601
00:36:47,978 –> 00:36:51,674
way as a heretic. Right. And over time,

602
00:36:51,722 –> 00:36:55,290
I had to realize, well, first of all, pastors are human and they make

603
00:36:55,330 –> 00:36:59,178
mistakes, and sometimes they even make really big mistakes

604
00:36:59,274 –> 00:37:02,874
about the bride of Christ. Yeah. And what matters

605
00:37:02,922 –> 00:37:06,746
is not how they responded in the second, where they maybe

606
00:37:06,778 –> 00:37:10,466
didn’t have all the information, but how they handle

607
00:37:10,498 –> 00:37:14,316
it after the fact. And so I’ve had to learn in these last couple of

608
00:37:14,348 –> 00:37:17,980
years to show a little bit of grace to pastors who I feel like didn’t

609
00:37:18,020 –> 00:37:21,040
handle it. All right. I think the point you’re making is

610
00:37:21,460 –> 00:37:25,076
very essential in our day. Maybe that’s a redundancy to say

611
00:37:25,108 –> 00:37:28,484
very essential. If it’s essential, it’s just

612
00:37:28,532 –> 00:37:32,236
essential. We cannot be drawing hard lines where

613
00:37:32,268 –> 00:37:35,700
God does not draw them. And I know we look at

614
00:37:35,780 –> 00:37:39,292
compromise in the church. I know we look at situations that

615
00:37:39,316 –> 00:37:43,024
are distressing to us. And I’m always going to come back and

616
00:37:43,072 –> 00:37:46,752
say, I can’t bind your

617
00:37:46,816 –> 00:37:50,608
conscience on something that God’s word is not clear on. Now, if you

618
00:37:50,624 –> 00:37:54,056
came to me and said, well, we just have a disagreement about whether Jesus is

619
00:37:54,088 –> 00:37:57,840
God, I would say, no, that’s

620
00:37:57,920 –> 00:38:01,608
not just a disagreement. Now we’re talking about something where the Bible is clear.

621
00:38:01,784 –> 00:38:05,504
I can show you the passages. We can look at that. It’s not only clear

622
00:38:05,552 –> 00:38:09,204
in scripture, but it’s been the clear teaching and understanding of the church for

623
00:38:09,252 –> 00:38:12,884
centuries. So I think we can appeal to that and say these

624
00:38:12,932 –> 00:38:16,540
are essential matters. But when we get to secondary

625
00:38:16,620 –> 00:38:20,156
issues where the Bible does not speak as

626
00:38:20,228 –> 00:38:24,020
clearly, and by the way, I will say the Bible speaks clearly on

627
00:38:24,060 –> 00:38:27,748
gender and sexuality. I believe so. I believe that the Bible

628
00:38:27,804 –> 00:38:31,460
is speaking clearly on the rightness or wrongness of these

629
00:38:31,500 –> 00:38:34,480
things, speaks clearly on how to define marriage.

630
00:38:35,180 –> 00:38:38,956
So those are things I can bind your conscience on. This is what

631
00:38:38,988 –> 00:38:42,524
romans 14 talks about, can I eat meat offered, sacrificed to

632
00:38:42,532 –> 00:38:45,996
idols? Can I drink this much or that much? You know,

633
00:38:46,068 –> 00:38:49,596
there’s all of these things that I think we have to leave room

634
00:38:49,708 –> 00:38:53,516
for wisdom, as opposed to saying, thus saith the Lord, this is

635
00:38:53,548 –> 00:38:57,360
right and this is wrong. Yes, I would agree with you,

636
00:38:57,980 –> 00:39:01,748
and I would just add, but we also need to be very, very

637
00:39:01,804 –> 00:39:05,418
careful that we’re not approving of wickedness

638
00:39:05,554 –> 00:39:09,234
and in our desire to love the people we love. I have family

639
00:39:09,322 –> 00:39:12,618
members in my family who deal with this

640
00:39:12,674 –> 00:39:16,370
issue, and my relationship with them

641
00:39:16,490 –> 00:39:19,510
is impacted deeply by this issue.

642
00:39:20,730 –> 00:39:24,458
And I don’t love those people any less. And at

643
00:39:24,474 –> 00:39:28,226
the same time, I still can’t love them by approving what they’re

644
00:39:28,258 –> 00:39:31,764
doing or approving what they’re believing, because that would be

645
00:39:31,812 –> 00:39:35,444
literally loving the destruction of their soul. John, chapter one.

646
00:39:35,492 –> 00:39:39,200
Jesus is described to us as being full of grace and truth.

647
00:39:39,740 –> 00:39:43,468
And he was not 50 50. He was 100

648
00:39:43,484 –> 00:39:47,292
hundred full of both. And he

649
00:39:47,316 –> 00:39:50,520
would never compromise truth for grace.

650
00:39:51,060 –> 00:39:54,492
He would never compromise grace for truth.

651
00:39:54,676 –> 00:39:58,076
This is where we have to figure out, what does it look like? And. And

652
00:39:58,108 –> 00:40:01,768
I think all of us, you, me, everybody who’s listening, we all lean

653
00:40:01,824 –> 00:40:05,184
in one direction or another. We lean in the grace direction, or we lean in

654
00:40:05,192 –> 00:40:08,896
the truth direction. And we need to recognize what we lean in and

655
00:40:08,928 –> 00:40:12,616
try to lean in the other direction a little bit. Because my wife

656
00:40:12,648 –> 00:40:15,976
said to me one time when we were raising our kids, she said, you are

657
00:40:16,008 –> 00:40:19,552
never going to be too strict with the kids. And what she meant was, I

658
00:40:19,576 –> 00:40:22,896
was the happy dad and I was the one. And she said, when you think

659
00:40:22,928 –> 00:40:26,100
you’re being too strict, you’re not. And she was right.

660
00:40:27,080 –> 00:40:30,858
And so I would recognize that I probably lean

661
00:40:30,914 –> 00:40:34,394
in the truth direction and need to course correct by leaning into

662
00:40:34,442 –> 00:40:37,830
grace more than I am inclined to do

663
00:40:38,290 –> 00:40:42,122
so that I can be. I never want to compromise truth, but

664
00:40:42,146 –> 00:40:45,922
I also never want to compromise grace. Grace. And I think we’ve

665
00:40:45,946 –> 00:40:49,682
got to recognize how we live that out before the Lord is. Is

666
00:40:49,746 –> 00:40:53,386
so important. Amen, man. Well, we’ve. We’ve

667
00:40:53,418 –> 00:40:57,252
gotten deep into some controversial stuff. With all different directions, didn’t we?

668
00:40:57,346 –> 00:41:00,584
Yep. But we’re going to dive into, back into that more

669
00:41:00,632 –> 00:41:03,500
controversial issue of husbands and wives.

670
00:41:04,320 –> 00:41:07,936
Let’s look at ephesians five for a minute. And as we

671
00:41:07,968 –> 00:41:11,460
dive in, I want to ask you why you think

672
00:41:12,880 –> 00:41:16,424
I’m looking at the passage here. And probably twice as much

673
00:41:16,472 –> 00:41:20,128
content is devoted to the husbands. And it starts with a

674
00:41:20,144 –> 00:41:23,300
very simple command, husbands, love your wives.

675
00:41:24,410 –> 00:41:28,002
Yeah. And what a great observation. I think it’s so important, I’m pulling it up

676
00:41:28,026 –> 00:41:31,650
over here on my device. But I think it’s so important that we

677
00:41:31,690 –> 00:41:35,162
recognize that more is said to husbands than to

678
00:41:35,186 –> 00:41:38,562
wives. And I think the greater difficulty for a

679
00:41:38,586 –> 00:41:42,306
husband, I think the sacrificial loving of your

680
00:41:42,338 –> 00:41:45,834
wife is maybe a harder responsibility

681
00:41:45,922 –> 00:41:49,546
and wives maybe going, well, that’s because you don’t have to submit to your husband.

682
00:41:49,658 –> 00:41:53,126
And I would go, yeah, but if he’s loving you, well and

683
00:41:53,158 –> 00:41:56,798
rightly, that should be hard.

684
00:41:56,934 –> 00:42:00,334
That’s not something that should be easy. And I’ll tell you a story, one of

685
00:42:00,342 –> 00:42:03,774
my favorite stories. Back when I was living in Tulsa years

686
00:42:03,822 –> 00:42:07,494
ago. I’d been married a couple of years. My friend Jeff,

687
00:42:07,582 –> 00:42:11,278
we were co workers. We were out on a sales call together, and

688
00:42:11,334 –> 00:42:14,358
he’d been married for six months. I said, how are you and Kathy doing? He

689
00:42:14,374 –> 00:42:18,020
said, we’re doing all right. I said, so what’s going on? He said, well,

690
00:42:18,440 –> 00:42:21,500
you know, she’s having a hard time learning to submit to me.

691
00:42:22,160 –> 00:42:25,808
And I said, well, what makes you think she’s supposed to submit to

692
00:42:25,824 –> 00:42:28,608
you? He said, it’s in the Bible. I said, well, I got a New Testament

693
00:42:28,624 –> 00:42:31,312
in my glove compartment. Get it out. So he got it out. I said, show

694
00:42:31,336 –> 00:42:33,624
me where it is in the Bible. Now I knew where it was. I just.

695
00:42:33,752 –> 00:42:37,536
So he opens it up to Ephesians chapter five. I said,

696
00:42:37,568 –> 00:42:41,216
ephesians five, down there at verse 22, is that where you are? He said,

697
00:42:41,248 –> 00:42:44,890
yeah. I said, what does it say? He said, it says, wives, submit. I said,

698
00:42:44,930 –> 00:42:48,506
stop. What’s the first word in that verse? Wives.

699
00:42:48,698 –> 00:42:51,786
I said, are you a wife? He said, no. I said, well, you can skip

700
00:42:51,818 –> 00:42:55,178
that verse. That’s not for you. God didn’t write that to

701
00:42:55,194 –> 00:42:58,466
you. It is not your job as a husband to try to

702
00:42:58,498 –> 00:43:01,898
enforce God’s standard with your wife, to say,

703
00:43:02,034 –> 00:43:05,586
you must submit to me. That’s between her and the Lord. Her

704
00:43:05,618 –> 00:43:08,986
submission to you is between her and the Lord. You have a full time

705
00:43:09,018 –> 00:43:12,590
job of loving her as Christ loved the church

706
00:43:12,750 –> 00:43:16,438
and gave himself up for her. And I know guys that

707
00:43:16,454 –> 00:43:20,086
say, yeah, I’d take a bullet for my wife. Yeah, will you sweep the floor

708
00:43:20,118 –> 00:43:23,878
for her? Right, take a bullet’s fine, but how many

709
00:43:23,894 –> 00:43:26,450
times you going to get called on to do that? But every day,

710
00:43:27,630 –> 00:43:31,130
will you serve her? Will you give up your life for her?

711
00:43:31,670 –> 00:43:34,970
And then it goes on to say, and will you nourish

712
00:43:35,350 –> 00:43:38,830
and cherish her? So, will you take care of

713
00:43:38,870 –> 00:43:42,462
her physical and spiritual needs? And will she

714
00:43:42,526 –> 00:43:46,070
know that cherish word is a word of value?

715
00:43:46,150 –> 00:43:49,902
Does she know that she is highly valued and

716
00:43:49,926 –> 00:43:53,470
that she is highly esteemed? Before you ever

717
00:43:53,510 –> 00:43:57,358
talk anything about her responsibility to submit, you

718
00:43:57,374 –> 00:44:00,958
just make sure that your wife would know. Your wife would stand up to me

719
00:44:00,974 –> 00:44:04,790
and say, I am so cherished by my husband.

720
00:44:05,810 –> 00:44:08,938
I’m the luckiest woman on the face of the earth because of how much I

721
00:44:08,954 –> 00:44:12,738
know he cherishes me. I’ve never met a wife who would say that and

722
00:44:12,754 –> 00:44:16,202
then would say, but I’m not going to submit to him. Right.

723
00:44:16,386 –> 00:44:20,194
See, it’s, if we’re doing our job rightly, a wife is

724
00:44:20,242 –> 00:44:23,890
going to. It’s going to be so much easier for her to

725
00:44:23,930 –> 00:44:27,590
respond to our leadership in the marriage and in the home.

726
00:44:28,130 –> 00:44:31,240
And when she’s not responding well,

727
00:44:31,900 –> 00:44:35,156
oftentimes it can go back to the fact that a husband’s not loving well, he’s

728
00:44:35,188 –> 00:44:38,732
not making it easy for her to submit. Now, it could be that she’s

729
00:44:38,756 –> 00:44:42,348
just in sin and stubborn and full of pride. I mean, that’s there. A

730
00:44:42,364 –> 00:44:46,108
husband can be loving and gentle and sacrificial, and his wife’s just

731
00:44:46,284 –> 00:44:49,772
got a hard heart toward this. But most often, when a

732
00:44:49,796 –> 00:44:53,240
husband is, in a dedicated way,

733
00:44:53,620 –> 00:44:56,956
nourishing and cherishing his wife, laying down his life for

734
00:44:56,988 –> 00:45:00,832
her, a wife says, this is the kind of man I

735
00:45:00,856 –> 00:45:04,528
want to follow and be with. And he hears my opinion,

736
00:45:04,584 –> 00:45:08,176
he hears my thoughts. He knows what matters to me. He takes all of that

737
00:45:08,208 –> 00:45:12,032
into account. And then Marianne and I have had this

738
00:45:12,056 –> 00:45:15,496
talk many times. I have said, okay, in this

739
00:45:15,528 –> 00:45:19,240
situation, do you want me to make this decision? And she

740
00:45:19,280 –> 00:45:22,768
has said, yes, I do, as long as you make

741
00:45:22,904 –> 00:45:26,612
exactly the decision that I would make if I were making the decision. And

742
00:45:26,636 –> 00:45:29,996
we laugh about that. But there’s part of her that’s

743
00:45:30,028 –> 00:45:33,764
like, she is

744
00:45:33,812 –> 00:45:37,636
not sure that the decision that I’m making is the right one,

745
00:45:37,708 –> 00:45:41,532
but she’s also not sure that the one that she thinks is right is the

746
00:45:41,556 –> 00:45:44,876
right one. She’s insecure about both decisions.

747
00:45:45,068 –> 00:45:48,680
And so ultimately, she has to trust

748
00:45:49,420 –> 00:45:52,614
the Lord and trust that that God’s

749
00:45:52,662 –> 00:45:56,046
establishment of this order is for her good and for his

750
00:45:56,078 –> 00:45:59,902
glory. And that even when I make a bad decision and

751
00:45:59,926 –> 00:46:03,582
I’ve made them, that God’s in the midst of that and that he cares

752
00:46:03,606 –> 00:46:06,382
for us and that he will protect us and guide us, and we can learn

753
00:46:06,406 –> 00:46:09,490
from that. How does this trickle down to our kids?

754
00:46:09,950 –> 00:46:13,486
Well, first of all, they see it. They see a

755
00:46:13,518 –> 00:46:16,980
healthy, loving relationship between a husband and a wife.

756
00:46:17,150 –> 00:46:20,980
Garritt, there’s nothing that will, that will be more

757
00:46:21,400 –> 00:46:24,820
secure for your kids, nothing that will cause them to feel

758
00:46:25,480 –> 00:46:29,152
more secure and safe than to

759
00:46:29,176 –> 00:46:31,980
see mom loving dad and dad loving mom.

760
00:46:32,560 –> 00:46:36,380
Tommy Nelson, who’s a pastor in Denton, Texas,

761
00:46:36,880 –> 00:46:40,020
used to tell a story. He said, I used to say to my boys,

762
00:46:40,840 –> 00:46:43,448
boys, I want you to know, if we were out together as a family in

763
00:46:43,464 –> 00:46:47,168
a rowboat on the lake, and a wind came up and it tipped over the

764
00:46:47,184 –> 00:46:50,728
rowboat and we were all in the water,

765
00:46:50,904 –> 00:46:52,976
he said, I want you to know what I would do. He said, the first

766
00:46:53,008 –> 00:46:56,520
thing I would do is I get that rowboat flipped over. He said, the second

767
00:46:56,560 –> 00:46:59,608
thing I would do is I would grab your mama and I would get her

768
00:46:59,624 –> 00:47:03,440
into that rowboat. And he said, then I would make sure she was okay

769
00:47:03,600 –> 00:47:06,968
and I would see if she needed any lemonade, see if everything was

770
00:47:06,984 –> 00:47:10,352
fine. He said, then I’d look back in the water and if you were still

771
00:47:10,376 –> 00:47:14,042
flailing, I’d come in and get you. Now he was again,

772
00:47:14,146 –> 00:47:17,866
you know, he’s joking here, but he was making the point to his boys.

773
00:47:18,058 –> 00:47:21,546
I want you to know what the priority is here.

774
00:47:21,738 –> 00:47:25,578
I want you to see it, because someday you’re going to be responsible for

775
00:47:25,594 –> 00:47:29,218
a wife, and I want you to know what that looks like. But he also

776
00:47:29,274 –> 00:47:32,946
knows those boys feel so secure if they know mom and dad are together.

777
00:47:33,058 –> 00:47:36,882
They’re a team. Dad loves mom, mom loves dad. They’re

778
00:47:36,946 –> 00:47:40,216
operating together as a team. There’s safety in

779
00:47:40,248 –> 00:47:43,580
that. They sleep better at night.

780
00:47:44,120 –> 00:47:47,920
They are more secure. So if you really love

781
00:47:48,000 –> 00:47:51,180
your kids, this back to what we started talking about.

782
00:47:51,520 –> 00:47:54,792
The most important thing you can do for your kids is love their

783
00:47:54,816 –> 00:47:58,480
mama and let them see you loving her and

784
00:47:58,520 –> 00:48:01,944
know that that’s safe and secure and that the

785
00:48:01,992 –> 00:48:05,816
nuclear family structure that God has ordained to be the structure where

786
00:48:05,848 –> 00:48:09,540
they grow and where they thrive, that there’s nothing threatening that

787
00:48:09,850 –> 00:48:13,666
because mom and dad love each other. And even when they disagree, they

788
00:48:13,698 –> 00:48:17,290
figure out how to get back on the same page together. I think that’s so

789
00:48:17,330 –> 00:48:20,810
important. Yeah. Amen. Let’s finish up this

790
00:48:20,850 –> 00:48:24,106
conversation on the family. I want to ask you a

791
00:48:24,138 –> 00:48:27,778
question. We’ve got dads listening who are

792
00:48:27,834 –> 00:48:31,458
probably in all ranges of doing

793
00:48:31,514 –> 00:48:35,002
this well, right? Some of them are loving their wives. Well,

794
00:48:35,146 –> 00:48:38,030
their kids feel secure. Theyre happy.

795
00:48:38,450 –> 00:48:42,218
Theyve lived out that godly model. And then im sure on the other end,

796
00:48:42,234 –> 00:48:45,442
there are some men who this is all just new information

797
00:48:45,546 –> 00:48:48,910
to, or even though they know it, its fallen apart.

798
00:48:49,210 –> 00:48:52,826
What advice would you give to men, to just start the

799
00:48:52,858 –> 00:48:56,618
process over to get it going right. Well, first I

800
00:48:56,634 –> 00:49:00,322
would say this is why I am so grateful for the gospel,

801
00:49:00,386 –> 00:49:04,194
because the gospel comes to us and says first of all, it

802
00:49:04,202 –> 00:49:08,050
is by God’s design that he brings beauty from ashes,

803
00:49:08,170 –> 00:49:11,770
that whatever mess we’ve made, God has grace for the mess

804
00:49:11,810 –> 00:49:15,074
we’ve made, that he can forgive and

805
00:49:15,122 –> 00:49:18,474
restore and heal and rebuild

806
00:49:18,642 –> 00:49:22,322
whatever we have broken. And I love romans eight, one that

807
00:49:22,346 –> 00:49:26,098
says there’s therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ

808
00:49:26,154 –> 00:49:29,786
Jesus. So you have to start telling yourself the truth, which

809
00:49:29,818 –> 00:49:33,324
is, yes, I’ve made a mess of things. I

810
00:49:33,372 –> 00:49:36,980
didn’t do what I should have done. I’ve done things I shouldn’t have

811
00:49:37,020 –> 00:49:40,420
done. This is how we confess to God.

812
00:49:40,580 –> 00:49:44,292
I’ve made this mess. And if we confess our sins, he is

813
00:49:44,316 –> 00:49:47,852
faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from the

814
00:49:47,876 –> 00:49:51,412
unrighteousness. So that cleansing from unrighteousness means

815
00:49:51,596 –> 00:49:55,204
he makes all things new. He brings beauty from

816
00:49:55,252 –> 00:49:58,548
ashes. So when we get to a point where we get a sober assessment and

817
00:49:58,564 –> 00:50:02,296
go, man, I made. I made a mess of things. The

818
00:50:02,328 –> 00:50:05,872
enemy wants that to be a message of despair and hopelessness.

819
00:50:05,936 –> 00:50:09,448
There’s no way that this can ever be restored. I love the

820
00:50:09,504 –> 00:50:12,936
verse in the hymn that says, when Satan tempts me to

821
00:50:12,968 –> 00:50:16,696
despair and tells me of the guilt within upward I look and see

822
00:50:16,728 –> 00:50:20,424
him there who made an end to all my sin because the sinless savior

823
00:50:20,472 –> 00:50:23,816
died. My sinful soul is counted free for God, the

824
00:50:23,848 –> 00:50:27,570
just is satisfied to look on him and pardon me. What a

825
00:50:27,610 –> 00:50:31,434
great glorious gospel truth. So we believe the gospel. That’s the first

826
00:50:31,482 –> 00:50:35,202
thing we do. That whatever mess we’ve made, God can restore it.

827
00:50:35,226 –> 00:50:39,042
He can make all things new. And that God is in that process

828
00:50:39,146 –> 00:50:42,994
of he forgives our sins, he rebuilds the ruins,

829
00:50:43,122 –> 00:50:45,850
and he gives us a hope and a future. That’s the first thing. And then

830
00:50:45,890 –> 00:50:49,390
secondly, you start to move in new directions.

831
00:50:49,770 –> 00:50:53,250
The word repent means to have a change of mind that leads to a change

832
00:50:53,290 –> 00:50:57,108
of direction. And so you say the way I’ve been doing it

833
00:50:57,124 –> 00:50:59,900
is wrong. I’m changing my mind. I’m going to do it the way God says

834
00:50:59,940 –> 00:51:03,780
I should do it. That’s the repenting. You’re now going in a new direction.

835
00:51:03,820 –> 00:51:07,540
And then you start acting on that and you will slip and stumble

836
00:51:07,580 –> 00:51:11,428
and fall back into old bad patterns and habits or you

837
00:51:11,444 –> 00:51:15,228
will disbelieve things. You’re not going to walk perfectly in a

838
00:51:15,244 –> 00:51:18,772
new direction all the way from here to the finish line. But when you

839
00:51:18,796 –> 00:51:22,228
stumble, you get back up and you re repent and you go back in the

840
00:51:22,244 –> 00:51:26,054
direction you know you should be heading in, which is God’s direction. You keep following

841
00:51:26,142 –> 00:51:29,550
him and you start applying the things that you

842
00:51:29,590 –> 00:51:33,050
know you’re supposed to be doing. You say, I’ve been too passive.

843
00:51:33,350 –> 00:51:36,758
You say I’m going to need to roll up my sleeves and start doing more.

844
00:51:36,894 –> 00:51:40,270
You say, I’ve re, I’ve reject, I’ve

845
00:51:40,310 –> 00:51:43,550
rejected responsibility. And you say, I’m going to start taking on

846
00:51:43,590 –> 00:51:47,398
responsibility and saying, what can I do around here? I prioritized other

847
00:51:47,454 –> 00:51:51,166
things ahead of my family. You start to make the adjustments so that your

848
00:51:51,198 –> 00:51:54,748
family becomes the priority. That’s going to look, it means your calendar is going to

849
00:51:54,764 –> 00:51:58,548
look different. That means your free time is going to look different. It

850
00:51:58,564 –> 00:52:02,260
means you may have to dial back and not get the advancement at work

851
00:52:02,300 –> 00:52:06,060
that you’ve been working for all this time because you’re prioritizing your family

852
00:52:06,140 –> 00:52:09,964
ahead of those things. But this is the recalibration that

853
00:52:10,012 –> 00:52:13,820
comes for a Christian that says, I’m going to get myself in alignment

854
00:52:13,860 –> 00:52:17,396
with what the Bible says I should be as a husband and a father, and

855
00:52:17,428 –> 00:52:21,112
I’m going to go in that direction, follow the path that God has me

856
00:52:21,136 –> 00:52:24,968
on and be obedient to him, doing

857
00:52:25,024 –> 00:52:28,480
all of it for his glory and to please

858
00:52:28,560 –> 00:52:32,184
him no matter what else happens. I’m struck, as you

859
00:52:32,232 –> 00:52:35,920
speak, at two things. First of all, all of this is

860
00:52:35,960 –> 00:52:39,432
predicated on the assumption that someone has believed the

861
00:52:39,456 –> 00:52:43,216
gospel, right? And I think it’s reckless of us to

862
00:52:43,248 –> 00:52:47,040
always assume that our listeners or our viewers know Jesus

863
00:52:47,080 –> 00:52:50,888
and that they’re following him. So I’m going to do something that’s not on

864
00:52:50,904 –> 00:52:54,536
the script, right. I’m going to ask you, Bob, to just share the

865
00:52:54,568 –> 00:52:58,296
gospel with us. And if somebody has not taken that

866
00:52:58,328 –> 00:53:01,960
first step, what do they need to do to believe and be

867
00:53:02,000 –> 00:53:05,624
saved? So I want to do that in the context of a story that I

868
00:53:05,632 –> 00:53:09,352
was looking at just last night in Luke, chapter 17, where there

869
00:53:09,376 –> 00:53:12,408
were ten lepers who were standing on the side of the road and they had

870
00:53:12,424 –> 00:53:16,268
a need, and they cried out to Jesus and said, lord Jesus, heal us. And

871
00:53:16,284 –> 00:53:19,068
he did. He said, get up, go to the priests. On the way to the

872
00:53:19,084 –> 00:53:22,868
priest, they healed him. And one

873
00:53:22,884 –> 00:53:25,620
of them, if you know the story, one of them turned around and came back

874
00:53:25,660 –> 00:53:29,400
and fell at Jesus feet and worshiped him. Now,

875
00:53:30,620 –> 00:53:34,028
the other nine got healed. They experienced

876
00:53:34,204 –> 00:53:37,988
God’s goodness in their life and they they

877
00:53:38,044 –> 00:53:41,676
probably spent the rest of their lives saying, you know, I used to have leprosy

878
00:53:41,708 –> 00:53:45,340
and God touched me and healed me, and I’m grateful, thankful. But

879
00:53:45,380 –> 00:53:47,160
they went on with their lives

880
00:53:49,110 –> 00:53:52,718
just kind of. They kind of looked back at that event and said,

881
00:53:52,774 –> 00:53:55,934
I’m so glad that happened, and I got my life back. And good old Jesus,

882
00:53:55,982 –> 00:53:59,450
thank him for doing that. One of them turned around and said,

883
00:54:00,310 –> 00:54:04,102
wait, he’s God, and went and fell

884
00:54:04,126 –> 00:54:07,910
at his feet and worshiped him. And I’m talking to guys now because

885
00:54:07,990 –> 00:54:10,646
there are some guys who are listening who are going, yeah, I believe in God,

886
00:54:10,678 –> 00:54:14,488
and God has been good to me, and I go to church and all

887
00:54:14,504 –> 00:54:17,928
of these things. So, yeah, I’m good. I’m a Christian. And I would say, well,

888
00:54:18,064 –> 00:54:21,848
are you like the nine who acknowledge the goodness of God in

889
00:54:21,864 –> 00:54:25,072
your life and point to Jesus as the one who is the source of

890
00:54:25,096 –> 00:54:28,780
that? But you’re not falling down at his feet and worshiping him.

891
00:54:29,560 –> 00:54:33,060
You’re not saying, this is the God who.

892
00:54:33,640 –> 00:54:37,088
Everything changes from this point on because

893
00:54:37,264 –> 00:54:40,620
now nothing else matters. He saved me,

894
00:54:41,000 –> 00:54:44,400
and my whole life is different as a result of that. For the other

895
00:54:44,440 –> 00:54:48,040
guys, their life was better because Jesus touched them, but it wasn’t

896
00:54:48,080 –> 00:54:51,904
different. They kind of got back to life as they knew it before, and Jesus

897
00:54:51,952 –> 00:54:55,736
was a distant memory. He was over here on the side.

898
00:54:55,848 –> 00:54:59,496
But for the one who came back, Jesus was at the center. He said, I’m

899
00:54:59,528 –> 00:55:03,192
here. Whatever. He’s falling at his feet. He’s worshiping him. So I would say to

900
00:55:03,216 –> 00:55:06,592
guys, as you think about your relationship with Jesus, first of

901
00:55:06,616 –> 00:55:10,250
all, have you believed what the Bible says is

902
00:55:10,290 –> 00:55:13,994
true about him? Because that’s where faith starts. You have to know

903
00:55:14,162 –> 00:55:17,938
what the Bible says is true not only about him, but have you

904
00:55:17,954 –> 00:55:21,550
believed what the Bible has said is true about you, about your own sin,

905
00:55:21,930 –> 00:55:25,642
about your need for Jesus, about the fact that you’re not as good as

906
00:55:25,666 –> 00:55:29,338
you think you are, that your heart is deceitful and desperately sick, and who

907
00:55:29,354 –> 00:55:32,722
can know it? There’s none righteous. No, not one. That’s what the Bible

908
00:55:32,786 –> 00:55:36,570
says. Once you understand my situation really is

909
00:55:36,610 –> 00:55:40,434
not good. I am in rebellion against God. My pride,

910
00:55:40,562 –> 00:55:43,830
my self sufficiency, those are problems.

911
00:55:44,250 –> 00:55:48,050
And God has sent his son to forgive

912
00:55:48,130 –> 00:55:51,810
my rejection of him and to give me the gift of new

913
00:55:51,850 –> 00:55:55,618
life. Once you understand that, do you believe that? Do

914
00:55:55,634 –> 00:55:59,202
you respond to that by saying, yes, I believe this, and

915
00:55:59,226 –> 00:56:02,080
then, does it reshape your life?

916
00:56:02,460 –> 00:56:06,212
Amen. And if it doesn’t reshape your life, then I think you have to go

917
00:56:06,236 –> 00:56:09,120
back and say, well, wait, did I really believe that or not?

918
00:56:09,740 –> 00:56:13,484
Because when you come to know Christ as your lord

919
00:56:13,532 –> 00:56:16,932
and master and savior, your life is completely

920
00:56:16,996 –> 00:56:20,788
different again. I still mess up. I still stumble. There are all kinds

921
00:56:20,804 –> 00:56:24,400
of issues that I’m dealing with. But Jesus is at the center.

922
00:56:24,860 –> 00:56:28,460
What he wants me to do is the lead priority in my life,

923
00:56:28,620 –> 00:56:32,204
and everything gets ordered around that. So to a guy who’s listening,

924
00:56:32,292 –> 00:56:34,788
if you would look at your life and say, you know, jesus is not at

925
00:56:34,804 –> 00:56:38,308
the center of my life. He’s not the lead priority in my life. He’s kind

926
00:56:38,324 –> 00:56:41,332
of an add on, and I’m glad to have him here, but I kind of

927
00:56:41,356 –> 00:56:43,932
keep him off to the side, and I’m doing what I think is the right

928
00:56:43,956 –> 00:56:47,556
thing to do and not paying a lot of attention to Jesus. I would say

929
00:56:47,668 –> 00:56:51,476
God is calling you to turn and follow him and go

930
00:56:51,508 –> 00:56:55,260
where he’s leading you and make him the center and then fall down and worship

931
00:56:55,300 –> 00:56:58,976
him. This is the God who came, forgave your sin, gave his life

932
00:56:59,008 –> 00:57:02,536
for you, and offers you the gift of eternal life. If that

933
00:57:02,568 –> 00:57:06,312
doesn’t change, if understanding and believing that doesn’t change everything

934
00:57:06,376 –> 00:57:09,952
about your life, then you haven’t fully understood the gospel yet.

935
00:57:10,136 –> 00:57:13,792
And you need to grapple with it a little more and come to a place

936
00:57:13,816 –> 00:57:16,840
where you say, no, I believe that, and now everything’s different.

937
00:57:17,000 –> 00:57:20,784
Amen, man. I don’t even know how to wrap it up better than that.

938
00:57:20,832 –> 00:57:24,642
I think that’s it. Bob, I would love to have you

939
00:57:24,666 –> 00:57:28,514
back on soon to talk about the church. Before we go,

940
00:57:28,682 –> 00:57:32,426
would you tell our audience about your books? Because you’ve written several

941
00:57:32,498 –> 00:57:36,298
books, and we talked a little bit about marriage. That’s been a recurring

942
00:57:36,354 –> 00:57:40,162
theme in your writing. So back 20 plus

943
00:57:40,226 –> 00:57:44,066
years ago, I wrote a book called The Christian Husband, which is

944
00:57:44,138 –> 00:57:47,938
still available still. You can purchase it on Amazon. It kind

945
00:57:47,954 –> 00:57:51,538
of maps out what our assignment as a husband is, what it looks like to

946
00:57:51,554 –> 00:57:55,034
love and lead our wives. Well, I wrote a book in

947
00:57:55,082 –> 00:57:58,770
2020 called Love Like You Mean It, where I

948
00:57:58,810 –> 00:58:02,618
took First Corinthians 13, and that’s the chapter in the

949
00:58:02,634 –> 00:58:06,098
Bible about love. And I applied it in a marriage relationship and said,

950
00:58:06,234 –> 00:58:09,458
what does it look like in a marriage for love? To be patient, love to

951
00:58:09,474 –> 00:58:13,122
be kind, not to be self seeking, not to be rude. I just went

952
00:58:13,146 –> 00:58:16,962
through all that, that passage talks about, and then I wrote

953
00:58:16,986 –> 00:58:20,162
a book, a follow on, not really a follow on to that, but a book

954
00:58:20,186 –> 00:58:23,938
called Build a Stronger Marriage that was designed for pastors or

955
00:58:23,954 –> 00:58:27,630
lay couples to be able to come alongside a couple that’s

956
00:58:27,970 –> 00:58:31,698
in mild distress. They go, things aren’t working out

957
00:58:31,714 –> 00:58:35,386
well and just work together to try to diagnose the

958
00:58:35,418 –> 00:58:39,202
source of that distress and try to apply the scriptures

959
00:58:39,266 –> 00:58:43,116
to that distress. So that’s Build a Stronger Marriage.

960
00:58:43,258 –> 00:58:46,584
And then the last two books that I’ve written in the last couple of years

961
00:58:46,632 –> 00:58:49,660
are what I call gospel giveaway books.

962
00:58:50,280 –> 00:58:54,032
And one of them is called the Four Emotions of Christmas.

963
00:58:54,216 –> 00:58:57,800
And the other is a new book called Twelve Things You Probably Didn’t Know About

964
00:58:57,840 –> 00:59:01,328
Easter. And these are short holiday books that if you buy them in

965
00:59:01,344 –> 00:59:05,088
bulk, you can buy them. I just bought a bunch for our church

966
00:59:05,144 –> 00:59:08,928
to use to give away at Easter time, and we were able to

967
00:59:08,944 –> 00:59:12,724
get them for less than $3 a book. So our people are buying

968
00:59:12,772 –> 00:59:16,596
those and giving them to friends and neighbors, along with an invitation to the

969
00:59:16,628 –> 00:59:20,412
Easter service at our church. And that’s what this book is. It’s

970
00:59:20,436 –> 00:59:23,612
a 60 page book that you can give to somebody who doesn’t go to church,

971
00:59:23,676 –> 00:59:27,412
and maybe they’ll be intrigued by the things they don’t know about Easter

972
00:59:27,476 –> 00:59:30,652
and maybe come visit your church with you. And the Christmas book is the same

973
00:59:30,676 –> 00:59:34,452
kind of thing for the Christmas season. I love it. You actually talked with

974
00:59:34,476 –> 00:59:38,220
Yvette, my wife, on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast about the Four

975
00:59:38,260 –> 00:59:41,708
Emotions of Christmas. And it was a great show. So I’ll link to that in

976
00:59:41,724 –> 00:59:45,564
the show notes. I’ll link to all your books. Bob, I really

977
00:59:45,612 –> 00:59:49,116
appreciate you coming on today. Also, real quick, tell us about your

978
00:59:49,148 –> 00:59:52,876
podcast, because it’s one I listen to. I love it. Well, thanks for that.

979
00:59:52,908 –> 00:59:56,548
It’s a podcast called the Bounce, and we call it that because

980
00:59:56,604 –> 01:00:00,372
it’s designed to help pastors be resilient in ministry, to help

981
01:00:00,396 –> 01:00:04,188
them bounce back, both pastors and church planters. It’s a

982
01:00:04,204 –> 01:00:07,926
part of the church planning organization that I’m on the board of directors

983
01:00:07,958 –> 01:00:11,622
for called the Great Commission Collective. We’re planning churches

984
01:00:11,686 –> 01:00:14,970
all across the country, in the US and Canada and around the world,

985
01:00:15,270 –> 01:00:19,006
gospel centered churches that

986
01:00:19,038 –> 01:00:22,654
share that common alignment. And so this is a regular

987
01:00:22,702 –> 01:00:26,318
podcast that I do to try to help encourage and equip pastors and

988
01:00:26,334 –> 01:00:29,902
church planters to be more effective and understand their role in ministry

989
01:00:30,046 –> 01:00:33,812
as best they can. And it’s a joy to get to do that. And it’s

990
01:00:33,836 –> 01:00:37,172
a good one. I would recommend listeners, if you want to check out this

991
01:00:37,196 –> 01:00:41,028
show, listen to his interview with Jim Davis on

992
01:00:41,044 –> 01:00:44,644
the great de-churching. It is really eye

993
01:00:44,692 –> 01:00:47,732
opening there’s another one on there, too, about next

994
01:00:47,796 –> 01:00:51,532
generation youth ministry. That’s fantastic. Yeah. With

995
01:00:51,556 –> 01:00:55,068
Doctor Danny Hinton. Yeah. Yes. And your interview with Matt

996
01:00:55,124 –> 01:00:58,944
Merker, is it Mercer or MerKer, on worship

997
01:00:58,992 –> 01:01:02,500
in the church is just fantastic. So,

998
01:01:03,080 –> 01:01:06,856
yeah, it’s a great one, guys. Check it out. And like I said, check

999
01:01:06,888 –> 01:01:10,360
out the show notes for links to Bob’s books. If you’ve

1000
01:01:10,400 –> 01:01:14,056
enjoyed this show, if you’ve been blessed, I would ask you just to share the

1001
01:01:14,088 –> 01:01:17,688
show. We’re a new show and we need your help spreading the word.

1002
01:01:17,824 –> 01:01:21,616
Also, check out our website, ThinkingDad.net. subscribe to our

1003
01:01:21,648 –> 01:01:24,962
newsletter. Pick up some merch. You can see my “Think Biblically”

1004
01:01:25,026 –> 01:01:28,802
t-shirt. These are super cool. You need one. So head on over

1005
01:01:28,826 –> 01:01:32,370
to ThinkingDad.net. and I want to give you one other

1006
01:01:32,410 –> 01:01:36,074
charge today. If what Bob has said about the gospel

1007
01:01:36,122 –> 01:01:39,954
has struck your heart, go on our website and reach out to me. You can

1008
01:01:39,962 –> 01:01:43,378
get a hold of me through there. I would love to pray for you. I

1009
01:01:43,394 –> 01:01:46,954
would love to share with you the gospel message. Jesus

1010
01:01:47,002 –> 01:01:50,698
saves and God is good. He loves sinners so

1011
01:01:50,754 –> 01:01:54,386
much that he sent his son to die for sinners so that he could

1012
01:01:54,418 –> 01:01:58,138
redeem them and adopt them as sons and daughters. So reach out to me. I’d

1013
01:01:58,154 –> 01:02:01,882
love to hear from you. Um, I hope you’ve been blessed by today’s

1014
01:02:01,906 –> 01:02:05,634
show. Please stick around to the end to hear a clip of what’s coming

1015
01:02:05,682 –> 01:02:09,410
up next on the Thinking Dad podcast. And we will see you guys

1016
01:02:09,450 –> 01:02:10,030
soon.

1017
01:02:13,370 –> 01:02:16,026
I have all. Folks, people are starting to speak up. More and more and more.

1018
01:02:16,058 –> 01:02:18,990
They’re not afraid to come out and do it. We got to stop letting fear

1019
01:02:19,030 –> 01:02:21,894
be the control for us. I keep telling I want to wake up the lions.

1020
01:02:21,942 –> 01:02:25,782
The sheep are going to be the sheep. The

1021
01:02:25,806 –> 01:02:29,566
biggest weapon against them and against

1022
01:02:29,678 –> 01:02:32,830
what they do themselves is apathy. I think apathy is one of the biggest killers

1023
01:02:32,870 –> 01:02:36,446
in America, let alone the world. The world we live in right now, we’re just

1024
01:02:36,558 –> 01:02:40,046
this attacks on anybody who’s looking for normalcy

1025
01:02:40,078 –> 01:02:43,270
because they’re changing all the words. They’re

1026
01:02:43,310 –> 01:02:47,128
redefining everything. They’re rewriting history. And the people that

1027
01:02:47,144 –> 01:02:50,712
are canceling these must be absolutely sin free,

1028
01:02:50,776 –> 01:02:53,824
perfect people, right? They just spread this culture of over

1029
01:02:53,872 –> 01:02:57,456
sexualization, hate and anger and divisiveness. And it’s like,

1030
01:02:57,608 –> 01:03:00,736
if you have a different point of view, that you just get canceled now. Hollywood

1031
01:03:00,768 –> 01:03:04,552
booted me out a good 1011 years ago because

1032
01:03:04,656 –> 01:03:08,380
they don’t like the fact I’m a Christian. And a conservative because that’s apparently.

1033
01:03:08,840 –> 01:03:12,666
That makes me a double leper in Hollywood. And, you know, you gotta

1034
01:03:12,698 –> 01:03:16,402
laugh at their hypocrisy because they scream for tolerance and freedom of speech, but it’s

1035
01:03:16,426 –> 01:03:17,610
all a one way street with these guys.