TD 15: Sam Black – Healing the Church: Overcoming Pornography and Redefining Discipleship

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The first thing we need to consider is that pornography is

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undermining every ministry of the local church. From

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young to old. Men and women are struggling. Well,

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only about 7% of churches are doing anything at all,

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whether it is having conversations and helping train parents

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on the impact of pornography on children and what they can do, or whether they’re

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providing resources to help men and women find freedom

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themselves. Only 7%, that’s, that’s too

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small. With a problem this big. With over a million

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marginally satisfied listeners and coming to you from an

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unlocked panic room in northeastern Oklahoma, I’m your host,

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Garritt Hampton, and you are listening to the Thinking

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Dad. I am so glad you’ve joined me today. We

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have an important show for you. I have Sam Black with me

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today. Sam is the author of

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The Healing Church, which I have here with me. It’s a really

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important book on the problem of pornography in the

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church. He’s also the director of recovery education at

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Covenant Eyes, a great organization that is helping

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men to stay pure in the church. So I

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want you to check them out. We’ll have links at the end of the show.

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But before we get into it, I want to talk about my sponsor,

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today. CTCMath.com Tell them thank you

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for supporting the Thinking Dad podcast. Well, Sam, it

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is a pleasure to get to talk to you. For our listeners who don’t know

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you, could you introduce yourself and your family? Thank you so much.

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My name is Sam Black. I have been with Covenant eyes for about

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17 years. I’ve been married for

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28 years. Wow, that just. I just

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had to think about that for just a second. And I

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wrote a book called the Healing what Churches Get Wrong About Pornography and How

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to Fix It. I’ve also edited and

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supported 16 other books

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to help people understand how people get Stuck in pornography and how to

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find lasting freedom. And I also wrote a book called the

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Porn Circuit. Understand you’d brain and break porn habits.

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And you just told me you’re also a granddad now. Yeah, I’ve got

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a baby boy as a grandson, and I’m so

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excited for that. Uh, my daughter and her

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husband just welcomed him just this past Saturday.

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And, oh, my goodness, what a joy, man.

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What a blessing. Well, for. For our listeners, this

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is what we’re working toward. One of the goals as thinking dads

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is to bring up the next generation to, you

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know, spread this legacy and to turn over our faith in the

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Lord to them. And so we’re going to talk a little bit about that

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legacy today and what we can be doing to prepare our

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children for a godly legacy. I’m excited to get

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into this, but I have to tell you guys, this

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is an interview I have really put off. I

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mean, just on the surface, who wants to talk about porn in the

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church? Like, one, I know that this is going to get dropped off of YouTube

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like a hot potato, and so we’ll have an uphill battle from

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there. But it is such an

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important conversation that we have to have because it’s

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so critical to the health of the church, the pure bride of

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Christ, which we want to see be pure. And

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so I think this was God ordained.

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I got a book from a publisher, the Healing Church,

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which we work with this publisher often. And I thought, yep,

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that that’s a good book and a good topic for our first season. Man, I

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don’t want to do that one. And then, Sam, I heard you on Bob

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Leen’s podcast the Bounce, and.

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And just heard your heart for the church and your heart for men,

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and thought, yeah, this is. This is something we probably need to do. And

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truly what pushed it over the edge. Let’s see if I have it here. Yep,

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here it is. Is when Sam sent his book, he

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sent me a written note and then followed up, we were able to

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email a little bit. And it’s rare to get that

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personal touch from authors. And I felt like God was saying, this

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is one you really need to do. So I’m excited to dive into

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that. I think this is going to be a super important

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episode. Sam, I just want to start

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with kind of unrolling the problem in the church. It’s.

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It’s clear that porn is

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pervasive not just in the greater culture, but

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also among Christians. What does the situation look

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like? Well, I think the first thing we need to consider

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is that Pornography is undermining every ministry

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of the local church. And you’re like, wait, wait, wait,

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Sam, come on. Every ministry of the local church?

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Well, let’s consider that a little more deeply. If the

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average age for first exposure to pornography is somewhere

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between ages of 8 and 12, depending on which study you’re looking at,

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which survey you’re looking at. Wow. Then we’re trying to

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teach our children Bible stories and help

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equip them in God’s word. And yet pornography is the

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secret thing that has entered their life, often unbeknownst to

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parents. Right. So we know that teens are

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among the most prolific users of pornography,

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and yet we are spending lots of time in the church

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on pizza night and camps and all

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these concerts that we’re taking them to. And

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yet pornography is the secret thing that we’re seemingly

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too concerned about talking about in the church

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or equipping parents to help talk about this in the church.

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In 56% of divorce cases today, a major contributing

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factor to the split is one person’s

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ongoing compulsive use of pornography.

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Wow. And pornography, by the way, doesn’t have

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a demographic from young to old, men and

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women are struggling. About 2/3 of men in the church say they have

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an ongoing struggle with pornography. And when you look at that

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deeper, 37% of all men, regardless

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of age, say they’re watching multiple times per week. Wow.

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When you look at that, ages 18 to 30,

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36% of that group is saying, we are watching it

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daily. Wow. Meanwhile, a third of women in the church say

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they have an ongoing struggle. So we really need to press

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into this if we are going to, one, guard the body of

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Christ, to call up the body of

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Christ for what God really wants for us so much.

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Right. And two, if we are, as moms and dads

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and grandparents, going to help support

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the next generation. Yeah. So

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what’s striking is we’re. We’re talking about people in the church. We’re

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not talking about the culture at large. That’s. This is. This is really

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a thing that has infected the whole church. I want to ask you two

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questions about that. First of all, what does the picture

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look like in churches, as for how they’re dealing with the

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issue? But also, I want to dive a little bit deeper when

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you mentioned that it affects every ministry in the church.

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How are leaders affected in the church? Yes.

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Well, only about 7% of churches are doing anything at all

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to provide direct support in some way.

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Only 7%. So whether it is

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having conversations and helping train parents on the impact of

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pornography on children and what they can do or whether they’re providing

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resources to help men and women find freedom themselves.

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So only 7%, that’s. That’s too small.

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With a problem this big. You know, let me just.

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I’m going to pull open a page here in the Healing Church, what

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churches get wrong about pornography and how to fix it. How is it impacting ministry

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leaders as well? This is. A 2016 Barna study

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reported that 57% of pastors and 64% of

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youth pastors said they struggle with porn currently or have

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in the past. About 21% of youth pastors

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and 5% of senior pastors believe they are addicted to

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porn. Wow. So, but how are

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we helping ministry leaders? Right. We don’t allow

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them to have any struggles. Right. Period. And we’re like,

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well, wait, Sam, they’re supposed to be above reproach, but

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they’re also human beings. They’re also

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part of our fallen nature.

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They’re part of the body of Christ. And we need to provide

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support and help for ministry leaders as well. And when we

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think about seminary students or those coming in, these are

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generations who have been raised with smart devices,

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and they have been seeing more pornography

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than any other generations coming up. So we need to say, hey,

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we want to address this issue. We want to. Rather than saying,

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you know, you’re fresh out of seminary or you’re a Christian college and we want

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to help you lead in the church. Well, one of the things we need to

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make sure that we’re doing is make sure that you have found freedom

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from this. And we’re willing to walk with you through the

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safe place and a safe process. Not for just,

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hey, you’re going to keep fighting. No, you get to live in

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victory. That’s what we want. Let me ask you a question. As we talk

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about that. It’s clear that not many

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churches are doing this, and it’s clear even that

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schools aren’t doing this as these young pastors are being trained

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up. How do you believe we need to be pre

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qualifying and treating before it ever

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is a problem? And then how do we remediate once we

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find out there’s a problem in the church? Right. Well,

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that’s a lot. That’s a lot of conversation. Garritt.

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Yeah, I can just turn it over to you now. You go for the

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rest of the show. Well, so there was

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a number of. Let’s start with some basic foundation here.

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Sure. There are multiple surveys and studies

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that have been done by both Christian universities as well as secular

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universities who Said, hey, let’s. We keep saying that

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pornography is impacting the Christian. What does that really look

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like? And regardless of whether you’re serving in the

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body or not, they found a direct

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correlation between pornography use

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and scripture life, prayer life, church

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attendance. The University of

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Oklahoma found a direct a correlation

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between how much pornography someone watched and

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whether they would serve in a volunteer role or on a

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committee over the next six years.

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Now, while I was writing the Healing Church, I also

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traveled the country, interviewed more than

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70 pastors and ministry leaders, counselors, people who’ve been through

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recovery, etc. And what I found there repeatedly

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was that some people, especially those some in

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ministry service, might volunteer more in their

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church to overcome the shame they felt about their pornography

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use. Now, that doesn’t. You’re saying, wait, wait, wait, Sam,

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let me get this right. So they were.

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They would go through this cycle of shame and

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perfectionism. On one side of the coin

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says, I have to be perfect. I can’t have

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anybody know that I’m struggling, but I need to just grip harder,

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do more, pray more, serve more. And if I do that,

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then these temptations I can keep at bay because I’m

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working so hard for the church. But as they hit

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some triggers, what I call C triggers, social, emotional,

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environmental triggers that have impact on our mind, body and

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spiritual. Then they have a

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fall and they reach out and they look at pornography.

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And then after that, then they go, oh, my goodness, I

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have fallen again. And this shame comes over them.

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What I call self hatred at my expense. It’s not godly guilt,

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it’s shame, intense, like, again,

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self hatred at my expense. And they wallow in that

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shame for a little bit. And then they’re like, I’ve just got to get back

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on track and do harder and work more and serve more. And

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so it flips like a coin between perfectionism

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and shame, perfectionism and shame. And we need

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to get out of that cycle. And when we do, we have a deeper

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understanding of how pornography is impacting us. And,

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you know, we want at Covenant Eyes to help people

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understand, how did I get stuck? Why do I seem to stay

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stuck? And how can I live in ongoing

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freedom? How do I get there? And so we created

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this app called Victory. And within it are more than 35

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courses that really answer those questions and begin

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guiding you on a path toward lasting

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victory. I’m going to

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push on you a little bit, and I’ll tell you, I believe that

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I know where your heart is on this, but I’m gonna, I’m gonna Just

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let you work through this with me so that we can all work through it

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together. Okay. I believe your heart is

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to heal men. Right. And I think that

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there’s definitely a need for that among the laity of men.

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But I think that the Bible so clearly outlines

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the qualifications for pastors. And my worry is

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that we can tend towards

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overwhelming grace rather than caution when it

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comes to the pastorate and people serving in the church.

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How would you talk to that? I wrote two chapters in the book

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regarding how pornography impacts those in ministry leadership.

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But we have a problem. We have a

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problem of shooting our wounded. And that means

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as soon as something isn’t quite right, we don’t help, we

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don’t support, we just give you the boot. Right. Or we

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do the opposite, where, oh, God’s grace is always sufficient. Let’s just

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pray over this and you’re back in ministry. Neither of those kinds

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of reactions are really what God has called the church

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to be. Amen. And what does God call the church to

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be? He calls us to follow

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him. As Paul said, follow

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me as I follow Christ. I’m giving an example for

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you. Well, that’s what the church overall needs to be.

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Now you’re like, well, Sam, that means we need to

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immediately outcast that person. Don’t let them have

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anything to do with the church. And what we’re really being called to

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do is call up people who are fallen and broken

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and hurting to a relationship and

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deep discipleship to follow Christ with every part of their

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being. Now, let me see if I can give you a

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couple of illustrations here. I think that’ll help.

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I was speaking at a denominations

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ministry conference, and one of the pastors who had

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invited me said, sam, I wanted to make sure you were here because, you

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see, I’m supposed to be retired now. And

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we invited another pastor to come in and we were going to co

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pastor for a while, but it turned out he was struggling

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with pornography. And so we

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disqualified him. He’s out. But you know,

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Sam, he said that he had been exposed to

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pornography at 8 years old and that

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had. Had got rooted itself in

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adolescence. Is it. Would that have any impact on him?

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And so when we’re missing the very

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basics of why do people get stuck in the first place?

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And I’m a little off track, but I gotta tell you this before we move

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on, the three common threads that we see

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over and over, these three common factors we see again and

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again. Early exposure to pornography, ongoing

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use and repetition, especially through adolescence, but can happen later in life

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too. And Number three, some trauma or pain that has

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happened early in life but can happen later as well.

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And so pornography actually rewires the

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brain to crave it more and more. With that acting

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out in that repetition, the early exposure is very impactful. We’ll

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come back and we’ll talk about this more fully. Sure. So when we

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understand those kinds of things, then we say, here’s a

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ministry leader who’s come in and wants

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to serve. And why do most ministry leaders want to

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serve? Because they have heard how felt pain

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and brokenness in their lives and God has moved

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in a miraculous way in that. And they are excited and they want

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don’t. They don’t want to see other people hurt. They want. They don’t. They want

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to see other people find some of that restoration,

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that saving that soul, saving blood,

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redemption that only comes through Christ. Right, right.

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But sometimes they haven’t dealt with many of the wounds and pains and

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impact in their lives, nor have they. When

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they went through seminary, did they get any help or support with

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this concept or find real wholeness. And so they started

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out in middle school and they said, you know, when I get to high school,

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I’m going to be around more mature people and this will just go away.

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And that didn’t work. And so they go to a Christian college

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and they think, well, I’m going to be around other Christians, and

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so I won’t want to use pornography. It won’t have any impact on me there.

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And that doesn’t work. And they say, well, I’m going to seminary. And at seminary

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I’m going to be around the most amazing people and

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around the most thoughtful and respected

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professors and teachers and instructors, and so I won’t have to

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struggle with it there. But seminary does not deal with this issue

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as well. And so when I go into the mission field or I go

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to a church and help support the pastor there,

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well, I’ll be around the even more

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dedicated people. And what they find

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is they’re in as a missionary in a foreign

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land with a different culture with all kinds of stresses and struggles and

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pain and anxieties. And so all

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the stresses that around our ministry leaders that we just pile

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on them today, Right. And we just say, hey, you just deal with all that

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stress. Surely you only do something on Sunday morning,

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Right. You don’t do anything else or a Wednesday night, whatever it

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is. And the stresses and the triggers and the

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pain that comes through that ministry, and they’ve never been able to deal

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with how do I cope with those things? Well,

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when they have learned and trained their brain, their mind, body and

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spirit, that when stress gets too much, when pain gets too much,

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when my lack, when I doubt my self worth, there’s an

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escape called pornography that I can run to. Yeah,

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well, we’re going to talk a little bit about how we attack the

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issue, practically how we can look at the issue biblically. But

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first we need to take a quick break. When we come back, we’re going to

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get deeper into this and look at how this should be tackled

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in our families. Men as you know, the Thinking Dad

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podcast is a new show and we are going to ask for

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your help to get the word out. We would really love to see

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millions of men impacted by this message of encouragement,

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but we need your help to do that. So here’s what I’m asking

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right now. Think of one dad you know who would be

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00:21:17,233 –> 00:21:20,953
encouraged by this show and share it with them. If you’re

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watching on YouTube or another of the video platforms, please make sure

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you’re subscribed to our channel, like the video and then leave

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00:21:28,305 –> 00:21:32,073
a comment because that really helps with the algorithms. If you’re listening to

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00:21:32,089 –> 00:21:35,793
the podcast, please take a minute to rate and review the show.

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That really is helpful to let people know how the Thinking Dad podcast

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has blessed you. Also, I mentioned CTCMath in our

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00:21:43,417 –> 00:21:46,925
intro. Guys, they have been such a blessing to us.

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They came in in a big way for our first season because they

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00:21:50,813 –> 00:21:54,165
just support the message of the Thinking Dad. So I want to ask

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00:21:54,205 –> 00:21:57,797
you, take a minute, drop by CTCMath.com

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00:21:57,901 –> 00:22:01,437
and just tell them thank you for supporting the Thinking Dad podcast.

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It really is a big help. All right, let’s get back to our conversation

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with Sam. Well, Sam, you know, it’s funny how

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God works. Last night I’m reading through my Bible and I’m a guy who

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reads from Genesis to Revelation. And then I go back and I read

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from Genesis to Revelation. I’m a guy who really likes to be in

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my comfort zone and that’s how I do it. But last night as

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I’m reading, I’m in First Corinthians and I get to chapters

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five and six where Paul is talking about the issue

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of sexual impurity in the church. And

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one of the things I was struck by this is First Corinthians 5,

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verses 4 and 5. It says, when you’re assembled in

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the name of the Lord Jesus, and my spirit is present with the power

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of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man, this

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sexually impure man who was having an affair with his father’s

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wife, deliver this man over to Satan for

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the destruction of the flesh so that his

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spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

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And I thought, wow, this is such a

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profound thing, that God would prefer this

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man’s flesh be destroyed, but that his

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spirit be saved. Right. And so as. As we look at the

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church, I think it’s so important to be

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considering not only how do we deal with the

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gigantic spiritual issue, how do we deal with this

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very clear and present danger to our flesh, but how

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are we working to save people’s spirits?

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So, you know, we’re talking to dads here,

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and I understand that even

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Christian dads who are listening, many of them are

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struggling with this issue and haven’t yet found

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freedom. Right. So let’s do a little bit of talk about.

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You mentioned how porn rewires your brain. How do we work

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to undo that? How do we work to take back this lost

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ground? Well, Garritt, let me pause us

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just because we take scripture as a whole, right? Yeah. And it’s very

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easy to go, man, I am not worthy. I should be cast out. I don’t

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deserve to be here. And we were talking about pastors and ministry leaders earlier,

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and we were like, just put them out in that instance,

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man. They were celebrating what was going

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on. Right. It would be like God says,

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pornography is just fine. Don’t worry about that. We all sin. We all

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struggle, but don’t worry about it. Just keep on pressing on, you know?

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No, no, no. When we look more deeply, Paul

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says, man, listen, when

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you sin sexually, you’re taking sin into your own

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body. And so we often have taken that as, oh, this must be

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a. A worse sin than other sins in our life. But

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what Paul is trying to help us understand is when we sin sexually,

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we are sinning. We take that in. We’re actually hurting

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our brain, which is our own body, we are hurting. And it

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creates this blast zone in your life. And not only is it impacting

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your life, it’s impacting the lives of. Around those around you. It’s

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impacting your spouse. Whether you want to say, oh, you know, I don’t think this

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pornography is really that big of a deal. It’s not impacting my marriage or

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my relationship with my wife. I want you to know it is.

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I run into guys on a regular basis. I’ve coached many men,

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and they go, man, when I started digging deeper into this, I really

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understood that I was really damaging my

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personal relationship, my loving

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relationship, my intimacy relationship, my sexual relationship

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with my wife. I did not realize how much I was

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programming and changing my brain to seek pornography, even. Even more

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than the wholeness of my wife. Oh, my goodness.

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Really? And so when we look at Galatians 6,

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it says, you know, Paul’s talking to us there. He says, listen, you who are

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spiritually mature. Gently correct. And he doesn’t do this

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as some, like, great idea. He says, do this. Like, this is

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important, you who are spiritually mature. Gently correct.

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And then he goes right after that and says, you know, when

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you guys, you want to read this, go to Galatians 6 and start reading

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there. But he says, right after that, listen,

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reaping and sowing will impact your life. Whether you

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reap to the flesh, whether you. Or whether you sow to the flesh, whether you

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sow to the spirit, it’s going to impact your life. Well, that’s exactly what we’re

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doing with pornography. When we act out with pornography from

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adolescence on through adulthood, we are

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sowing and reaping in a brain that has been

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corrupted, a body, mind, body, and spirit that has been corrupted

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by pornography. And you need a

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spiritually mature person who is going to come alongside you and begin

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walking with you through a safe place and a safe process. And then

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right after that, Paul says, again, don’t get tired of

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doing this. You who are spiritually mature, especially

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to those within the church, not to those outside the church, those

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within the church. Gently correct? Right.

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Yeah. In James, chapter five,

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we read, my brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the

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truth and someone brings him back, let him know that

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whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save

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his soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

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Amen. What a blessed position we have right in the

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body to be able to recover. Sam, do you mind

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if I read a few more passages? Only because I

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think. Great. Yeah. No, I just got

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to pause this here for a second. Oh, my goodness. This is why I get

453
00:27:53,775 –> 00:27:57,455
so excited about this book, because here’s what I found over and over

454
00:27:57,495 –> 00:28:01,215
again. Those who go through a safe place and a safe process

455
00:28:01,295 –> 00:28:04,823
and find victory over pornography, they come out on the other side more

456
00:28:04,879 –> 00:28:08,363
excited, more vital, more empowered

457
00:28:08,539 –> 00:28:12,331
to serve others in the church. As I was writing the Healing Church

458
00:28:12,363 –> 00:28:16,003
and visiting churches that were doing this work, well, they said, listen, Sam, you got

459
00:28:16,019 –> 00:28:18,735
to understand the good news here. This is important,

460
00:28:19,795 –> 00:28:22,775
that because we are doing this work. Well,

461
00:28:23,875 –> 00:28:26,975
I don’t do more as a pastor, I do less.

462
00:28:27,355 –> 00:28:30,739
Because people who have gone through a deep discipleship process,

463
00:28:30,867 –> 00:28:34,015
who understand that their brokenness, who understand

464
00:28:34,365 –> 00:28:37,869
their Pain, who are more self aware of their emotions and come out on the

465
00:28:37,877 –> 00:28:41,509
other side saying, I surrender all of this to you, Jesus Christ.

466
00:28:41,677 –> 00:28:45,173
I am going to walk with others in the faith and not keep this thing

467
00:28:45,229 –> 00:28:48,837
secret anymore. They come out on the other side of that in

468
00:28:48,861 –> 00:28:52,701
greater wholeness and they want to give back the

469
00:28:52,733 –> 00:28:56,197
freedom they’ve received. And that doesn’t matter what the issue

470
00:28:56,261 –> 00:28:59,895
is. They’re ready to give to others that grace,

471
00:29:00,045 –> 00:29:03,691
that patience, that love, that kindness, that service that they’ve received

472
00:29:03,763 –> 00:29:07,611
themselves. Wow. It is striking

473
00:29:07,683 –> 00:29:11,415
how when we understand how much we’ve been saved from

474
00:29:11,835 –> 00:29:15,627
and also what we are saved to, it should be

475
00:29:15,651 –> 00:29:19,455
the greatest motivator of us to be evangelists.

476
00:29:19,995 –> 00:29:23,747
And not just evangelists, but also those who build up

477
00:29:23,771 –> 00:29:27,427
the body, be the Barnabas’right because it’s one thing to

478
00:29:27,451 –> 00:29:31,107
save a soul. It’s one thing to maybe even begin disciple

479
00:29:31,171 –> 00:29:34,163
making, but it’s another thing to

480
00:29:34,339 –> 00:29:37,947
shepherd men and women into the fullness

481
00:29:38,011 –> 00:29:41,507
of a life with Christ. And oh man, that’s a,

482
00:29:41,571 –> 00:29:45,235
that’s exciting. I had, you know, I, I will

483
00:29:45,275 –> 00:29:48,707
write down questions for an interview and I kind of throw them on the page

484
00:29:48,851 –> 00:29:52,469
and hope that we follow some track. But my last

485
00:29:52,557 –> 00:29:55,665
question for you is, are you hopeful?

486
00:29:56,365 –> 00:30:00,181
And I can’t think of a better hope. So,

487
00:30:00,213 –> 00:30:03,421
Sam, I’m going to jump ahead

488
00:30:03,613 –> 00:30:07,425
because I’m so caught up right now in this hopefulness.

489
00:30:07,765 –> 00:30:11,293
One, how would you see, what would your

490
00:30:11,389 –> 00:30:15,117
prescription be moving forward for the church to deal

491
00:30:15,141 –> 00:30:18,293
with this? And then also, are you

492
00:30:18,349 –> 00:30:22,025
hopeful? Well, I am very hopeful.

493
00:30:22,925 –> 00:30:26,637
That’s why I wrote the book to provide hope to pastors and ministry leaders, to

494
00:30:26,661 –> 00:30:30,477
help them again understand the issue in the first place so they

495
00:30:30,501 –> 00:30:33,861
can provide a safe place and a safe process. I know I say that again

496
00:30:33,893 –> 00:30:36,585
and again, sure, but it is so important

497
00:30:37,245 –> 00:30:40,909
because when someone is stuck in a stronghold

498
00:30:41,077 –> 00:30:44,481
and they recognize where they’re

499
00:30:44,513 –> 00:30:48,249
at, they are willing to press in. They are

500
00:30:48,297 –> 00:30:51,805
willing to submit themselves to a deep discipleship process

501
00:30:52,305 –> 00:30:56,145
and that we don’t have to reinvent the wheel. We’ve got lots of tools

502
00:30:56,185 –> 00:30:59,445
at Covenant Eyes and other places to really help and support.

503
00:30:59,785 –> 00:31:03,393
But when that happens, it spreads. It does

504
00:31:03,409 –> 00:31:07,017
not stay with one person. It continues to spread to one, to

505
00:31:07,041 –> 00:31:10,725
another, to another, in small groups as well as

506
00:31:11,415 –> 00:31:14,815
every group in your church can be impacted by

507
00:31:14,975 –> 00:31:18,583
restoration ministry. Amen. And so

508
00:31:18,759 –> 00:31:22,559
I am very hopeful. But if there is one thing we have to

509
00:31:22,607 –> 00:31:26,439
learn about this issue as well as many other issues,

510
00:31:26,607 –> 00:31:30,115
is we don’t go it alone. We don’t find freedom alone.

511
00:31:30,735 –> 00:31:34,575
When James 5:16 says, Confess your sins to one another and

512
00:31:34,615 –> 00:31:38,413
pray for one another, that you may be healed. He

513
00:31:38,429 –> 00:31:42,269
doesn’t write as a suggestion, but I go to small churches, and they’ll

514
00:31:42,317 –> 00:31:45,661
say, sam, you know, we’re a small church. We all know each other, our kids

515
00:31:45,693 –> 00:31:49,105
go to school together, etc. It’s just too much

516
00:31:49,405 –> 00:31:53,061
for us to be that kind of vulnerable and honest. And

517
00:31:53,093 –> 00:31:56,277
yet I’ll go to a large church, and they’ll hear that I work for Covenant

518
00:31:56,301 –> 00:31:59,565
Eyes, and they’ll say, you know, I’ve been wanting to find an ally who will

519
00:31:59,605 –> 00:32:03,263
receive my reports of how I use my devices, but I just don’t know

520
00:32:03,279 –> 00:32:07,015
another man that I can trust that I know

521
00:32:07,055 –> 00:32:10,847
well enough in this bigger church. It’s not the

522
00:32:10,871 –> 00:32:14,623
size of the church that’s the problem, is it? It’s what part of James

523
00:32:14,679 –> 00:32:18,455
5:16 do we not believe? And so,

524
00:32:18,495 –> 00:32:21,223
Garritt, when I come to you and I said, man, I have been struggling. In

525
00:32:21,239 –> 00:32:24,635
fact, I’ve been struggling since I was an adolescent with this.

526
00:32:25,335 –> 00:32:29,017
And would you be willing to be an ally for

527
00:32:29,041 –> 00:32:32,601
me? Because an ally cares about you, the

528
00:32:32,713 –> 00:32:36,377
someone you trust. I know you have my back. I can come and talk to

529
00:32:36,401 –> 00:32:40,081
you. And you say, yes, Sam, I’m here for you. Well, now you.

530
00:32:40,113 –> 00:32:43,841
The Holy Spirit in you is working in the Holy Spirit in me. And it’s

531
00:32:43,873 –> 00:32:47,697
creating new power in my life where I

532
00:32:47,721 –> 00:32:51,545
can confess my sins. And you say, you know, I could

533
00:32:51,585 –> 00:32:55,417
easily come to you, Garritt, and say, you know, I struggled with pornography. I felt

534
00:32:55,441 –> 00:32:59,179
a pornography yesterday. And you’d say, well, Sam,

535
00:32:59,227 –> 00:33:02,723
what happened? And you said, well, I had a. You know, I just had a

536
00:33:02,739 –> 00:33:06,299
bad day at work. It was just a bad day. And he goes, well,

537
00:33:06,387 –> 00:33:09,931
let’s dive a little deeper. What happened at work? Oh, you know,

538
00:33:09,963 –> 00:33:13,723
I missed a deadline. My boss is yelling at me, et cetera. And you

539
00:33:13,739 –> 00:33:17,547
go, oh, well, how’d that make you feel? Because what you’re feeling leads to what

540
00:33:17,571 –> 00:33:21,155
you’re thinking, leads to what you’re going to be doing or thinking of doing, Right?

541
00:33:21,275 –> 00:33:25,091
And now you’re helping me unpack this. And now you have something more

542
00:33:25,163 –> 00:33:28,085
impactful to pray for than simply,

543
00:33:29,305 –> 00:33:33,057
oh, I sinned. We’re diving

544
00:33:33,121 –> 00:33:36,369
deeper. We’re unpacking

545
00:33:36,417 –> 00:33:40,209
this. Well, okay, Sam, this is going to happen

546
00:33:40,257 –> 00:33:42,885
again in the future. You’re going to have a bad day at work.

547
00:33:44,625 –> 00:33:48,125
How can we react differently the next time that comes?

548
00:33:48,985 –> 00:33:52,601
And how can we allow Jesus to bring his healing, the Holy

549
00:33:52,633 –> 00:33:56,261
Spirit, bring his healing into your life? And how would you.

550
00:33:56,373 –> 00:33:59,785
Maybe you could reach out and give me a call when you say you’re struggling,

551
00:34:00,845 –> 00:34:04,533
when you’re fighting. Right. And I can come along and fight beside

552
00:34:04,589 –> 00:34:07,385
you. As Ecclesiastes would say, right

553
00:34:08,045 –> 00:34:11,845
now I have power to make better choices,

554
00:34:12,005 –> 00:34:15,705
to follow Christ, to dig deeper.

555
00:34:16,125 –> 00:34:19,807
I don’t have to give in to that emotional

556
00:34:19,871 –> 00:34:23,327
trigger or that lack of self worth or that self

557
00:34:23,391 –> 00:34:27,191
doubt and try to escape that emotion. I can live wholly

558
00:34:27,223 –> 00:34:30,871
in Christ. That’s where we get power from one

559
00:34:30,903 –> 00:34:34,655
another. Wow. And you, we mentioned that you

560
00:34:34,695 –> 00:34:38,511
work for Covenant Eyes. You guys provide some tools to help

561
00:34:38,543 –> 00:34:42,035
this happen and almost automate the process. Right.

562
00:34:42,975 –> 00:34:46,824
It doesn’t remove our burden bearing responsibility. Right.

563
00:34:46,864 –> 00:34:50,152
Where to bear one another’s burdens. Yes. But you

564
00:34:50,208 –> 00:34:53,992
do provide really effective tools for helping

565
00:34:54,048 –> 00:34:57,696
to keep the accountability. Tell us about that. Yeah. So you can.

566
00:34:57,800 –> 00:35:01,600
Covenant Eyes provides a monitoring software that goes on phones,

567
00:35:01,672 –> 00:35:05,448
tablets, computers, and then you choose a friend, you say, hey, I want.

568
00:35:05,496 –> 00:35:09,124
Would you receive an ongoing report of how I use my devices?

569
00:35:09,744 –> 00:35:13,457
And. And you’re allowed you can add them

570
00:35:13,481 –> 00:35:16,953
through your account. But there is this companion app that goes with it called

571
00:35:17,009 –> 00:35:20,801
Victory. And Victory is where the actual feed comes through.

572
00:35:20,833 –> 00:35:24,325
And your ally can use Victory and you can use Victory as well.

573
00:35:25,225 –> 00:35:28,961
And so those two apps work together. One is monitoring, the other

574
00:35:28,993 –> 00:35:32,497
was displaying what’s being monitored. But also within the

575
00:35:32,521 –> 00:35:36,137
Victory app, which is free by the way, is more than 35

576
00:35:36,201 –> 00:35:39,933
courses that help you understand, how did I get here? Why do

577
00:35:39,949 –> 00:35:43,453
I seem to stay stuck? How can I walk in lasting

578
00:35:43,509 –> 00:35:47,277
freedom? So important one of. I’m going to

579
00:35:47,301 –> 00:35:50,981
shift gears a little bit. The purpose of

580
00:35:51,013 –> 00:35:54,589
this show is to help men to think biblically

581
00:35:54,637 –> 00:35:58,429
about the different spheres of life. Right. We understand their spheres of

582
00:35:58,477 –> 00:36:02,261
government. There are also spheres of our existence. And

583
00:36:02,453 –> 00:36:05,709
one of those that is most important for us as

584
00:36:05,757 –> 00:36:08,855
dads is that sphere of family

585
00:36:09,275 –> 00:36:13,067
where to steward our families well. And I know I’m

586
00:36:13,091 –> 00:36:16,875
a, I’m a dad of two daughters who has been praying

587
00:36:16,915 –> 00:36:20,695
for their future spouses since before they were born.

588
00:36:21,835 –> 00:36:24,655
I care deeply that my children

589
00:36:25,235 –> 00:36:29,003
experience a life of joy and service to the Lord. And so

590
00:36:29,019 –> 00:36:32,741
I want to ask you, Sam, as dads, how can we be

591
00:36:32,773 –> 00:36:36,385
preparing our children to have victory in this area?

592
00:36:36,685 –> 00:36:40,493
Right. Thank you. Thank you for that. That is so awesome. Because

593
00:36:40,589 –> 00:36:43,925
if we are not doing our part, then we are just creating

594
00:36:43,965 –> 00:36:47,733
another generation who is struggling in silence. We do not

595
00:36:47,749 –> 00:36:51,525
want that. Right. And it

596
00:36:51,525 –> 00:36:55,221
is important for us as dads to understand how impactful pornography can

597
00:36:55,253 –> 00:36:58,895
be on a child’s brain. If you ask any

598
00:36:58,935 –> 00:37:02,695
Adult guy about the first time that he saw pornography. If he saw

599
00:37:02,735 –> 00:37:06,311
pornography as a child, he can likely tell you a complete

600
00:37:06,383 –> 00:37:09,735
story, even though they can’t remember anything else about that

601
00:37:09,775 –> 00:37:13,479
day. Wow. Right? That’s how impactful it is on that

602
00:37:13,527 –> 00:37:17,367
young brain. I remember being 10 years old. I was walking out of my

603
00:37:17,391 –> 00:37:20,911
home in Florida. My brother, who is nine years older than

604
00:37:20,943 –> 00:37:24,455
me and. Or 10 years older than me, and his friend were leaning up against

605
00:37:24,495 –> 00:37:27,995
his car, and they were looking at a magazine sideways.

606
00:37:28,815 –> 00:37:32,367
And I said, hey, what are you guys looking at? Because how can you read

607
00:37:32,431 –> 00:37:35,995
sideways? And they flipped it around, and

608
00:37:36,415 –> 00:37:40,223
I didn’t step further away. I stepped closer. Even though

609
00:37:40,239 –> 00:37:43,775
I grew up in a Christian home, I didn’t even understand the basic

610
00:37:43,815 –> 00:37:47,103
mechanics of sex, but I was naturally curious about what the

611
00:37:47,119 –> 00:37:49,995
opposite sex looked like without clothes.

612
00:37:51,145 –> 00:37:54,969
Now, I can’t tell you anything else about that day, but

613
00:37:55,097 –> 00:37:58,657
dopamine fires off, and it helps

614
00:37:58,721 –> 00:38:02,441
create. It ignites these feelings

615
00:38:02,553 –> 00:38:06,297
that feel good, especially when sexual cues are

616
00:38:06,321 –> 00:38:10,001
picked up, even though I didn’t understand what I was feeling.

617
00:38:10,153 –> 00:38:13,953
It can also focus the attention of a child to the point

618
00:38:13,969 –> 00:38:17,045
of tunnel vision as well as adults. Right

619
00:38:18,015 –> 00:38:21,559
in God’s design. This is beautiful because

620
00:38:21,607 –> 00:38:25,431
dopamine fires off and now you’re focused on your spouse. The

621
00:38:25,463 –> 00:38:27,995
rest of the world disappears, Right?

622
00:38:28,815 –> 00:38:32,431
But pornography is not sex. It’s a

623
00:38:32,463 –> 00:38:34,795
hijacking of what God created.

624
00:38:36,655 –> 00:38:40,383
So then the teenage years come along, and there’s this ongoing

625
00:38:40,439 –> 00:38:44,283
repetition because we’re not talking about pornography, we’re not equipping,

626
00:38:44,399 –> 00:38:48,043
we’re not protecting enough in our homes. And so this ongoing

627
00:38:48,099 –> 00:38:51,803
repetition of use of pornography happens, and it begins

628
00:38:51,859 –> 00:38:55,075
building those neural pathways that crave it more and

629
00:38:55,115 –> 00:38:58,907
more and more. And if there has been some struggles, some

630
00:38:58,931 –> 00:39:02,611
pains, whatever else is going on, it’s very easy to

631
00:39:02,643 –> 00:39:06,195
begin using pornography as an escape, a way to regulate your

632
00:39:06,235 –> 00:39:09,295
moods and size, your emotions, et cetera,

633
00:39:09,875 –> 00:39:13,043
and those. Then those triggers expand to things like

634
00:39:13,099 –> 00:39:16,779
boredom. I didn’t do well at

635
00:39:16,827 –> 00:39:20,283
school. Whatever it is, pornography

636
00:39:20,339 –> 00:39:23,971
becomes a secret escape. So how do we

637
00:39:24,003 –> 00:39:27,667
combat this? We start by having

638
00:39:27,731 –> 00:39:31,475
conversations at a young age. And you’re like, okay, how

639
00:39:31,515 –> 00:39:35,299
young do we start? Well, as soon as your child can use words,

640
00:39:35,467 –> 00:39:38,535
they need to know the correct names of their body parts.

641
00:39:39,245 –> 00:39:42,941
I serve on a trafficking task force and others in the

642
00:39:42,973 –> 00:39:46,805
past. And what police

643
00:39:46,845 –> 00:39:50,581
would tell me is often we couldn’t prosecute

644
00:39:50,773 –> 00:39:54,621
because there were nicknames and other things used

645
00:39:54,653 –> 00:39:58,189
for body parts, or they didn’t understand where their

646
00:39:58,237 –> 00:40:01,613
private areas were, et cetera. And because of

647
00:40:01,629 –> 00:40:04,745
that, we couldn’t press forward

648
00:40:05,355 –> 00:40:08,747
with the prosecution. Right. All right, so we need to

649
00:40:08,771 –> 00:40:12,259
begin letting them know the correct names of their body parts.

650
00:40:12,427 –> 00:40:16,075
And there’s also this great book called Good Pictures,

651
00:40:16,155 –> 00:40:19,819
Bad Pictures Junior and Good Pictures,

652
00:40:19,867 –> 00:40:23,571
Bad Pictures Junior walks kids through what good pictures are and what bad

653
00:40:23,603 –> 00:40:27,331
pictures are. It makes sense, right? And what are good pictures of our pets

654
00:40:27,363 –> 00:40:31,101
and our family. And they hang them on the walls. And sometimes we

655
00:40:31,133 –> 00:40:34,717
go on vacation and we go to the beach

656
00:40:34,901 –> 00:40:38,477
and when we go to the beach, we wear our bathing suits. Now a child

657
00:40:38,541 –> 00:40:42,101
knows where their bathing suit area, and that’s a private area. Those are

658
00:40:42,133 –> 00:40:45,949
private areas. Right. And so now they’re more. And

659
00:40:46,037 –> 00:40:49,685
someone, you know, we need to equip our

660
00:40:49,725 –> 00:40:52,905
kids to know that they can say no to an adult,

661
00:40:53,645 –> 00:40:57,319
that their private, their, their bathing suit

662
00:40:57,367 –> 00:41:00,967
area is private to them and they can say no to anyone.

663
00:41:01,071 –> 00:41:04,687
Right. And they need to understand

664
00:41:04,751 –> 00:41:08,519
why that is too. Okay, so that book helps you do that. And

665
00:41:08,567 –> 00:41:12,383
then it says, well, when you see pictures that where the bathing suit

666
00:41:12,439 –> 00:41:16,231
area isn’t covered, well, that’s pornography. And we

667
00:41:16,263 –> 00:41:20,103
can turn, run and tell. So it equips them to turn, run and

668
00:41:20,119 –> 00:41:23,711
tell, Turn, run and tell. And that repetition helps prepare them for the day they

669
00:41:23,743 –> 00:41:27,505
see pornography. Now you go, all right, Sam, you

670
00:41:27,545 –> 00:41:31,385
want me to actually introduce the word pornography to my kids? That’s. You’ve got

671
00:41:31,385 –> 00:41:33,845
to be crazy, right? All right, so

672
00:41:35,265 –> 00:41:38,625
seven year old boy is at his

673
00:41:38,665 –> 00:41:42,369
neighbor’s house and well, let

674
00:41:42,377 –> 00:41:45,965
me back up. This mom had followed

675
00:41:46,345 –> 00:41:48,485
this plan of action in having

676
00:41:49,865 –> 00:41:53,473
software on all the devices in the home to both block and

677
00:41:53,569 –> 00:41:56,919
monitor what’s being done, but also having ongoing

678
00:41:56,967 –> 00:42:00,639
conversations that teach, train and disciple her kids. And

679
00:42:00,807 –> 00:42:04,039
she read the Good pictures, Bad pictures book to her seven year old.

680
00:42:04,167 –> 00:42:07,555
They read it again and again. And

681
00:42:08,375 –> 00:42:12,015
this seven year old boy goes to his neighbor’s house and

682
00:42:12,055 –> 00:42:15,075
that seven year old boy at the neighbor’s house has said,

683
00:42:15,695 –> 00:42:18,955
has gotten an iPad for his birthday, right?

684
00:42:19,335 –> 00:42:23,055
And very quickly he has learned what pornography. He has come across pornography

685
00:42:23,095 –> 00:42:26,725
by accident. And he takes this device and he sticks it

686
00:42:26,805 –> 00:42:30,397
in the face of the other seven year old boy who’s been

687
00:42:30,421 –> 00:42:33,733
trained. But the seven year old boy who’s been trained goes, no,

688
00:42:33,909 –> 00:42:37,597
that’s pornography. And he turns, he runs

689
00:42:37,701 –> 00:42:41,501
and he tells, he tells mom and dad what happened, right? He leaves, goes

690
00:42:41,533 –> 00:42:45,285
back home next door, tells him what happens. Well, they congratulate

691
00:42:45,325 –> 00:42:48,589
him. I’m sure he got an extra scoop of ice cream or whatever it was.

692
00:42:48,637 –> 00:42:51,973
You know, they’re really proud, right? But they want to let the other parents know

693
00:42:51,989 –> 00:42:55,693
what happened. Well, they’re flabbergasted that their 7 year

694
00:42:55,709 –> 00:42:59,245
old would be remotely curious about this, Even

695
00:42:59,285 –> 00:43:02,869
though I was curious at that age too. Right, right.

696
00:43:02,997 –> 00:43:06,573
With a little more investigation, they find that their seven year old son has

697
00:43:06,669 –> 00:43:10,211
shown pornography to kids throughout the neighborhood. 7, 8,

698
00:43:10,274 –> 00:43:13,845
9 and 11 year olds. The only child who said

699
00:43:13,885 –> 00:43:17,481
anything was the child who’d been trained. All the other

700
00:43:17,513 –> 00:43:21,161
kids kept it their secret. Why? Well, they may have had some

701
00:43:21,233 –> 00:43:24,793
fear that they might get in trouble. Maybe they had some shame about it.

702
00:43:24,889 –> 00:43:28,365
Maybe it was their secret. Maybe it was,

703
00:43:28,665 –> 00:43:32,113
or whatever it was, all the other kids kept

704
00:43:32,169 –> 00:43:35,817
silent. None of their parents were informed.

705
00:43:36,001 –> 00:43:39,765
And so we hear again and again through professionals in this field

706
00:43:40,185 –> 00:43:43,771
that when we equip our kids and train them about these

707
00:43:43,803 –> 00:43:47,095
things, they don’t become more curious, they become

708
00:43:47,675 –> 00:43:51,171
less curious and lean on you and they become an

709
00:43:51,203 –> 00:43:54,619
ally with you to help protect them. Wow. So

710
00:43:54,667 –> 00:43:58,227
powerful men. I know. You know, but

711
00:43:58,291 –> 00:44:01,987
parenting isn’t for wimps. And this is one of

712
00:44:02,011 –> 00:44:05,095
those areas where it takes intentional

713
00:44:05,515 –> 00:44:09,207
hard work as a parent. Starting early. Sam, do you

714
00:44:09,231 –> 00:44:12,903
have a few more minutes for another. Another question? Yes, of course. All

715
00:44:12,919 –> 00:44:16,671
right. I’m struck as you’re talking about

716
00:44:16,783 –> 00:44:20,395
this idea of a seven year old being exposed and exposing others.

717
00:44:22,095 –> 00:44:25,895
It, it strikes me that when I was a kid, I think you’re

718
00:44:25,975 –> 00:44:29,431
in, in my generation, in order to be

719
00:44:29,463 –> 00:44:33,255
exposed to pornography, you either had to have a dad who had

720
00:44:33,295 –> 00:44:36,955
magazines in his house or you had to have a neighbor whose dad who had

721
00:44:36,995 –> 00:44:40,675
magazines in his house. And I praise God, in my house, my dad

722
00:44:40,715 –> 00:44:44,267
wasn’t a man who would have allowed this, wouldn’t have, wouldn’t have

723
00:44:44,291 –> 00:44:47,843
encouraged it. Never had it around, never talked about it.

724
00:44:48,019 –> 00:44:51,699
But of course, when I was, you know, in that young age group, I don’t,

725
00:44:51,747 –> 00:44:55,531
I don’t know if it was seven or eight or nine, but there was a

726
00:44:55,563 –> 00:44:59,363
neighbor, you know, whose dad had a stack of magazines in the garage and

727
00:44:59,379 –> 00:45:03,225
you get exposed to it. Now,

728
00:45:03,805 –> 00:45:07,573
every kid has access to devices. Or they have a

729
00:45:07,589 –> 00:45:11,317
friend who does. Exactly. And I appreciate

730
00:45:11,381 –> 00:45:15,021
you saying we’ve got to be preparing our kids, but I want to

731
00:45:15,053 –> 00:45:18,225
ask you maybe even a philosophical question

732
00:45:18,845 –> 00:45:22,653
and then I want to ask you the practical question. I’ll split them up. I

733
00:45:22,669 –> 00:45:26,471
won’t dump them both on you. At the same time. It strikes

734
00:45:26,503 –> 00:45:29,847
me that we lived in a time where you had to be exposed to magazines.

735
00:45:29,951 –> 00:45:33,599
And yet at young ages, we were

736
00:45:33,647 –> 00:45:36,983
exposed and our friends were exposed to these harmful

737
00:45:37,039 –> 00:45:40,879
things. And thinking back before That I

738
00:45:40,927 –> 00:45:44,375
understand that throughout history, sexual sin has been

739
00:45:44,415 –> 00:45:48,079
prevalent. Do you believe we’re in a time where

740
00:45:48,127 –> 00:45:51,755
this is a much more prevalent problem,

741
00:45:52,605 –> 00:45:55,941
first of all? And if so, how do we deal with

742
00:45:55,973 –> 00:45:59,733
that? Yeah. Never before in human history

743
00:45:59,789 –> 00:46:03,493
has so much inappropriate content been available at such a

744
00:46:03,509 –> 00:46:07,221
young age with so few restrictions. In all of our history, we

745
00:46:07,253 –> 00:46:10,333
carry around with us in our pockets the largest library of

746
00:46:10,349 –> 00:46:13,585
pornography ever created in the history of mankind.

747
00:46:14,165 –> 00:46:17,965
And there will be some naysayers who go, oh, yeah, pornography’s been with us since

748
00:46:18,005 –> 00:46:21,503
Keith Men were driving, drawing on walls. Well, you know what?

749
00:46:21,639 –> 00:46:25,087
It’s just not as impactful to see a drawing on a wall. It’s just

750
00:46:25,151 –> 00:46:28,439
not. I mean, come on.

751
00:46:28,607 –> 00:46:32,235
That argument is so stinking weak

752
00:46:33,455 –> 00:46:36,555
that pornography today

753
00:46:37,055 –> 00:46:40,495
isn’t just the nudity that we saw in the past.

754
00:46:40,575 –> 00:46:43,287
Today it is hardcore,

755
00:46:43,431 –> 00:46:47,207
demeaning, violent. It is startling to

756
00:46:47,311 –> 00:46:51,083
a child who sees it today. And so

757
00:46:51,259 –> 00:46:54,851
there, you know, we talked about dopamine. Well, norepinephrine is

758
00:46:54,923 –> 00:46:58,483
also associated with sexual arousal as well as

759
00:46:58,539 –> 00:47:02,347
stress and fear and flight. So when

760
00:47:02,371 –> 00:47:05,411
a child sees something that is so violent,

761
00:47:05,523 –> 00:47:09,259
demeaning, shocking, well, that creates a

762
00:47:09,307 –> 00:47:12,627
stress, it creates a shock, and it helps

763
00:47:12,691 –> 00:47:16,227
also burn that memory into the brain through

764
00:47:16,251 –> 00:47:19,923
norepinephrine, which is, again, helps burn those memories into the

765
00:47:19,939 –> 00:47:23,427
brain, even along with dopamine. So it is.

766
00:47:23,571 –> 00:47:27,195
We need to really wake up and recognize this is more important

767
00:47:27,315 –> 00:47:30,827
today than it ever has been in the past. And

768
00:47:30,851 –> 00:47:34,495
yet, like you said, even men who were

769
00:47:35,715 –> 00:47:39,415
senior citizens today had seen pornography. Right.

770
00:47:40,435 –> 00:47:44,275
My struggle with pornography was exacerbated because

771
00:47:44,315 –> 00:47:47,499
I had a friend and his dad had pornography that was falling out of his

772
00:47:47,547 –> 00:47:51,017
closet. I could take anything I wanted, and I

773
00:47:51,041 –> 00:47:54,405
did. And so pornography would follow me

774
00:47:55,265 –> 00:47:58,769
throughout. And so only through the. And through the church, I found

775
00:47:58,817 –> 00:48:02,433
freedom and support. We can come back to that later. But it

776
00:48:02,449 –> 00:48:05,889
is so that pornography today is so impactful

777
00:48:06,017 –> 00:48:09,761
on young child and so available. Even

778
00:48:09,793 –> 00:48:13,545
though we recognize that many men who are older, Sears

779
00:48:13,585 –> 00:48:17,371
and Roebuck magazine or catalogs, and J.C.

780
00:48:17,403 –> 00:48:20,931
penley catalogs with swimsuits and underwear ads,

781
00:48:21,043 –> 00:48:23,535
were the pornography often that many

782
00:48:24,515 –> 00:48:27,295
children and adolescents used

783
00:48:28,195 –> 00:48:31,883
as they were growing up from older generations, even if they didn’t have access,

784
00:48:31,939 –> 00:48:35,291
they had access to those and were using those. Wow.

785
00:48:35,443 –> 00:48:39,283
Yeah. Satan is a clever deceiver. And

786
00:48:39,299 –> 00:48:42,835
I think throughout time, his intent never changed,

787
00:48:42,955 –> 00:48:46,619
changes. It’s to steal, kill, and destroy. And so he’s used

788
00:48:46,667 –> 00:48:50,251
what’s available. And we weren’t talking to our kids back then about the

789
00:48:50,323 –> 00:48:53,931
sex and those issues, et cetera because, oh, well, they’re just innocent

790
00:48:53,963 –> 00:48:57,683
and they don’t have any curiosity. There’s nothing going on or there

791
00:48:57,699 –> 00:49:01,427
was a shaming that would happen. And I

792
00:49:01,451 –> 00:49:04,347
tell parents, if you shame your children, you will teach them to run to

793
00:49:04,371 –> 00:49:07,675
pornography more. They’ll just hide it

794
00:49:07,715 –> 00:49:11,533
better. Yeah. And so we need to get out of

795
00:49:11,549 –> 00:49:15,229
that shaming aspect and have meaningful conversations.

796
00:49:15,357 –> 00:49:19,197
And there’s great tools available to help you do that. Well, I don’t

797
00:49:19,221 –> 00:49:21,745
think we could end on a better note than that.

798
00:49:22,925 –> 00:49:26,749
I am encouraged to hear that there are tools and

799
00:49:26,917 –> 00:49:30,545
I want to encourage men, take this on in your homes,

800
00:49:31,165 –> 00:49:34,879
take it seriously, because we are living in different

801
00:49:34,927 –> 00:49:38,767
times than in the past, in more critical times. And the church

802
00:49:38,831 –> 00:49:42,471
needs to be preserved and our legacy needs to be

803
00:49:42,503 –> 00:49:45,935
preserved. So thank you, Sam. I really

804
00:49:45,975 –> 00:49:49,695
appreciate you coming on today. Tell everybody once again

805
00:49:49,735 –> 00:49:53,463
about your books and about Covenant Eyes. Yes.

806
00:49:53,559 –> 00:49:57,255
Well, one, if you’re someone who’s struggling today

807
00:49:57,295 –> 00:50:00,855
or you want to help someone else, download that Victory App by Covenant

808
00:50:00,895 –> 00:50:04,411
Eyes. The Victory App by Covenant Eyes is free and in there there’s

809
00:50:04,443 –> 00:50:08,203
35 courses that help you understand how did I get here? Why do I seem

810
00:50:08,219 –> 00:50:11,739
to stay stuck and how can I live in freedom? You can buy

811
00:50:11,787 –> 00:50:15,411
The Healing Church: What Churches Get Wrong About Pornography And How to Fix

812
00:50:15,443 –> 00:50:19,131
It on Barnes and Noble or Amazon, etc.

813
00:50:19,163 –> 00:50:22,875
Wherever you normally buy books online. And there is

814
00:50:22,915 –> 00:50:26,507
a free book ebook called the

815
00:50:26,531 –> 00:50:30,227
Porn Circuit: Understand Your Brain and Break Porn Habits. You

816
00:50:30,251 –> 00:50:33,995
can find that at CovenantEyes.com. Well, Sam, thank you

817
00:50:34,035 –> 00:50:37,883
so much for for writing this important book, for making

818
00:50:37,939 –> 00:50:41,691
these resources available. Thank you for your ongoing work at Covenant

819
00:50:41,723 –> 00:50:45,475
Eyes to help men and thank you for your ministry to the

820
00:50:45,515 –> 00:50:49,171
church. It is much appreciated. I really appreciate you coming

821
00:50:49,203 –> 00:50:53,027
on today, man. I hope you’ve been encouraged. I want to encourage you

822
00:50:53,051 –> 00:50:56,747
to head over to thinking dad.net for the show notes of

823
00:50:56,771 –> 00:51:00,155
this show where you can find links to get the books and hook up with

824
00:51:00,195 –> 00:51:04,023
Covenant Eyes and connect with Sam. Also, while you’re there, you

825
00:51:04,039 –> 00:51:07,535
can pick up a cool shirt. As you see, I’m wearing my “Think Biblically”

826
00:51:07,655 –> 00:51:11,383
shirt today. Not only does it help you to look

827
00:51:11,399 –> 00:51:14,835
cool as a dad, but you’re supporting the show in the process. While

828
00:51:15,175 –> 00:51:19,007
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829
00:51:19,031 –> 00:51:22,695
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830
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831
00:51:26,335 –> 00:51:30,075
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832
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833
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834
00:51:36,987 –> 00:51:40,819
I hope you’ve been encouraged today. Stick around

835
00:51:40,867 –> 00:51:43,651
to the end of the show to hear a clip of what’s coming up next

836
00:51:43,683 –> 00:51:47,155
time on the Thinking dad. And we’ll see you back here real soon.